Bassman, You came here with an offer of quality original music. In a subsequent reply to your post, which has thus far gone unanswered, I showed that at least one of your demos is a plagiarism of John Williams' JFK score. My challenge to you is to explain this. Frankly, there's not a whole lot of things that make me madder than musical plagiarism. I wasn't able to match any of your other music with anything that I was familiar with, and I don't think I'll be bothering to try, as this example seems particularly egregious. To the other GDNet composers: I don't think I've ever heard any of you plagiarize. I'm not going to be running around doing this a lot, I discovered this by accident. It makes me really upset--a lot of us are working hard to come up with original melodies, themes, and sounds, and to see somebody who is cheating is really frustrating. I challenge you to not EVER plagiarize. The internet is a big place, but there's a lot of people out there to catch you, and plus, it destroys your integrity. If you find someone here plagiarizing, including me, post it up all over these boards. It would make me mad if someone got hired ahead of me because they copied someone else's music, and I think it would make you mad too. People come here for good original music. Let's keep it that way. P.S. Mods, if this is improper of me, do what you have to do.

Well, I did listen to both samples on Bassmans thread...both his and the JFK clip you posted. I agree they are startlingly similar and I'm not going to offer any specific possible defenses...that's up to Rick if he so chooses.

Me? I'll generalize.

George Harrison got into trouble for "My Sweet Lord". This was Harrison's first single as a solo artist. It was his biggest hit. In 1976, Bright Tunes Music sued Harrison because this sounded too much like the 1963 Chiffons hit "He's So Fine." Bright Tunes owned the copyright to "He's So Fine" and received $587,000 when a judge ruled that Harrison "subconsciously plagiarized" the song. Harrison claimed he got the idea for this from The Edwin Hawkins Singers' "Oh Happy Day," not The Chiffons' "He's So Fine."

BTW, I "plagiarized" that text from here.

So it happens, and happens a lot. Music can be boiled down to a finite combination of numbers and that's when probability and likelihood come into play.

I wrote theme music for a pirate game about 6 months ago that I realized I had inadvertently (and subconsciously) stolen the melody line from Disney's "Robin Hood". You know the whistly theme? Have a listen:

Booty Dooty Main Theme

I couldn't find a clip from Roger Miller's "Whistle Stop" to post here, but if you've heard the Hampster Dance then you know what I'm talking about (they used a sped up version of "Whistle Stop")

So it happens. It's simply bound to.

Tony

It's okay to be musically inspired by other work, especially when you explain that inspiration - think John William's Star Wars score, which he said was inspired by Mars from Holst's Planets Suite in the LP liner, and is quite obvious when you listen to them together - but blatant copying of themes is not.

Saying that, in many cases that I've seen, the copying is subconsious, so you can't jump to any conclusions.

Anthem--you're right, similarities are bound to happen. However: your pirate piece uses a fairly common I: V: I: IV: I chord progression, and the melody over it is similar to the robin hood music, but I wouldn't have connected them had you not said something. The examples I posted are a little different--the clip of the jfk theme is short, so you can't really get a full idea of it. What it boils down to is that Bassman's version of the theme has one note that is different, and it's really just a passing tone. Everything else--rhythms, chords--is virtually identical. It's not a common chord progression, not a common theme.

Subconscious plagiarism? It's very possible. But did any of you really think that Vanilla Ice hadn't sampled that bass line? I don't think so.

I listened to both tracks-

There are many things similar here but let me play devil's advocate first:

The form of this segment is a popular one- solo trumpet over strings with snare doing simple military like fills.

I bet 10,000 pieces have taken that approach. Some instruments or grouping of instruments naturally lend themselves to certain roles. How many scary movie scores have used high violins to help create suspense? How many chase scenes have used heavy percussion to create a high sense of motion?

Probably tons.

What does strike me is how similar the melody and chordal structure is. While chordal progressions are not held by copyright, melodies are.

I don't know Bassman, and this is his first work that I've listened to. I'd like to believe that this is just a fluke. For example, I've written well over 100 tunes for games and such- there is probably at least one score that makes you think of another movie or game. I do try and create original music and do not approve of stealing other people's music whatsoever!!

Bassman, if you did steal this- then I hope you never land another composing job for the rest of your life. There is no place for you since you steal from others. If you didn't do this- then its just one of those strange things that happen.

I'll leave it at that.

By the way, how do I make links to my music? I have an orchestral theme I'd love to share. Thanks!

Nathan
www.madsenstudios.com

There are a lot of things that can, could, and are being assumed on both sides of the fence. It would just be easier to hear what Bassman has to say.

Although I agree with all of the points said here, plagrism in music is not something that is new, and especially when it comes to making money and selling music. I was told once to rip a piece off so close that it sounds like the piece, without being that piece. I respectfully told them that I was not interested.

People hear different things as well. I just finished a piece. My friend claims I stole if from Pirates of the Carribean. I have never seen that movie, nor have I listened to the soundtrack at all. I have never listened to any Bedauly music, and very little Zimmer either.

My friend played me the clip. I don't hear what I had "copied", nor so does anyone else who listens to it.

When I listened to both, the first 10 seconds made no impression me. I didn't think anything too much. But some of the later parts of the clip are very close in orchestration, in intervalic relationship, and happens to be in the same key.

I am certainly not accusing Bassman, and I feel he has a right to defend himself in respectful light.

Sean Beeson

Quote: That is correct, Universal Music requested a sound alike for a movie trailer, and that is what that is. There is nothing to hide, please check all the music if you have the time. The other pieces that I mentioned are not available for use, were composed for other projects. The sound alike "Heros", is as well NOT AVAILABLE for use, but 50% owned by Universal Music, 50% owned by me.
Here in Los Angeles, it is not uncommon for a request to be made to compose something that sounds like another. As a matter of fact, if you go to my site, www.scorela.com and listen to the Austin Powers piece I did for the Superbowl, you will hear that I sounds like another well known piece.
Sometimes it's a bummer to do sound alikes, but I do enjoy the financial benefits.

I stand corrected--sorry to have made a big deal about it. Looking forward to hearing more from you in the future!

jerk.

just kidding, Blaise.

I had to do a sound alike for a machinima recently. Atkins Switcher from Tristan Pope of Crafting Worlds...anyone? Anyway, it was for a contest entry and he could use no copyrighted material so he hired me to rewrite the Apple "Switch" song and the Macarena.

Got 2nd place for best comedy. We made it very clear that it was parody though. I don't feel too bad about it. (though slightly ashamed that I had the "macarena" somewhere deep inside me.

There are worse things than the Macarena out there. Some customer in the record store I work in said she was looking for a song and only knew how it went, so she started singing it to me. I grew up in the 80's and it was unavoidable, but the fact that I instantly recognized it as an Ace of Base song made me feel...unclean.