:rant on: Game controls, why do most suck? No, really why is it so hard to make the player controls work in a maner that doesn't cause you to heave it across the room? Thank god for GameFly. Of the last four (4) games I have played the combination of camera and charcter controls have been horrid! My brother and i just sent back "Syphon Filter: Whatever" after trying to play for just about an hour. Fighting the controller and the enmmies was just too much pain to put up with. "Spartan: Total Warrior" another sucktastic camera control though charcter controll was very improved over "SF:W". After sealing up my orange envlope to return the lateset bad game, I releised that over the winter most of the games I played had awfull controlls, some I was able to deal with or just not make use of al functions and still find it playable. Why is this? This goes back to what your mother always said "just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something". There is has never ever been a need for me to look at a close up of my charcters ass in a game. Yet it happens all the time, usually just as you run into a bunch of bad guys about to attack I turn to face them and the camrea bumps a wall and pushes in to the top of my head or ga wall or my ass, my ASS! then I die because I lost sight of the fight at hand. The camera should never repeat NEVER not be facing my directionn of travel.. NEVER! I've gone my whole life without my eyes floating off randomlly and it works prety well that way. Now charcter control, where to begin.. how about I never ever accidently dropped a item, jumped or crouched for no reason in the middle of a battle in my life. I have also never needed to turn 180 degrees to shoot a bow, I'm not a master archer by any means but all of my arrows are going to go in the direction of my target not randomly fly out in any direction. I prety shure that if a bad guy ran up to me and stopped 2 feet away and turned around (why, i have no idea) I could hit him with a shot from my gun (or the gun itself for that matter) without any problem, why in games do I always target something across the room? Why is there a delay from pushing the button until the action takes place it's a button it's electronic, if the bad guy runs up and I do manage to target him correctly there's stil a possibility my attack won't happen until after it's way too late. No really who comes up with putting the crouch, jump, special move, control as the joy stick press button? thre you are fighting for your life, your palms are sweating and you grab the controller tighter reflexivly and bang you throw your self off a clif or something. Why on half the shooters out ther is the trigger (index finger) button not the trigger, sure the X, A button has traditonally been the fire button but that was befor controllers had triggers built in. Why do I have to press four buttons to use a rifle that has a scope attached? Why is there a zoom on it most scopes are a single power? These are problems that should have stopped the game from getting published but it seems it's now concidered the norm for controls to suck or too belive players will keep fighting with it until they "get it" sory wrong I only know a single very hard core gamer that might stick with it just too finish the game. Most players are not like that. Ok, who's to blame for this sorry state of affairs? What can be done to correct this problem, are my friends and I the only ones who see this as a problem? :rant off: I'm not sure this is the place for this but as Designers you should have a handle on this before codeing even begins. What is the thinking on this issue from a design point of view is this part of the game disscussed as much as the art or music content? I really do want to hear how others deal with this issue. Torvald Beyond2012.com

Can you please tell us the name of the game that had bad controls? I don't know if I played that game, but if you frequently accidentally press the tumbstick, or if the button delay is too long, maybe you have a poor quality controller?

Camera control is a known issue in most third person 3D games. The camera is required to show the player all the time, to never pass throu walls, and to avoid jumping from one position to another. This is not a easy thing to do.

The 180 turn button is not there so you can smash it randomly. It is there so you can easily turn around - like you can do in real life.

Designers are always looking for ways to make games hard. One way is to make the controls painful to use. After all, going the other direction also have the expected effect - the controls could be made some easy that the game plays itself!

How do I solve this one? Easy, I like games to be fun, rather than hard. It's a difference between the "serious" and "casual" gamers.

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Original post by Kallisti Designers are always looking for ways to make games hard. One way is to make the controls painful to use. After all, going the other direction also have the expected effect - the controls could be made some easy that the game plays itself!

actually we´re not. and you´re deep in the country of apples and oranges here - accessibility, usability and difficulty are completely different things. I´ll go out on a limb here, but I assume that any random (professional) designer can explain the difference here and why they don´t mix well.

I do not consider my self a pro designer. Heck, I'm barely a freewere designer. However, I do know that if you make the game hard by making the enemies more strong, more smart, or simply more, than the player can improve his skills to defeat them. However, if the controls are clumsy, imporving the players skills will not be very effective. However, it is a good idea to make clumsy controls if you want the player to focus on planning strategies.

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Original post by Torvald Ok, who's to blame for this sorry state of affairs? What can be done to correct this problem, are my friends and I the only ones who see this as a problem?

You, for buying generic 3rd person rubbish like Syphon Filter. [grin]

Slightly more seriously - the majority of big, mainstream games suck. This includes having lousy controls. Why not try playing something different from the latest big name 'blockbuster'?

To a certain extent the complexity of controls is due to trying to cram in ever more detail and interaction. Games with 'simple' controls (eg. most Nintendo games) end up being dismissed as kiddy and immature. What we need is a greater degree of context-sensitive controls. Something like Viewtiful Joe is a good example of this - only three main action buttons (punch, kick, jump) but with different, predictable effects depending on the current context (including, but not limited to, controller direction, player position/pose and enemy position).

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Original post by someboddy However, it is a good idea to make clumsy controls if you want the player to focus on planning strategies.

it´s primarily a good idea if you want players to quit your game within a few minutes.
there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for clumsy controls. you can have complex controls, you can even have controls that are difficult to master, you can have controls that are unreliable. as long as on the basic layer of control the player gets immediate and reliable feedback.

I tend to think about a game called Gunvalkyrie when I think of difficult controls. I think the devs intended to have a steep learning curve when it came to the controls in that game to integrate well with the gameplay mechanics. Because once you mastered those controls the game really picks up and is a rewarding experience ultimately.

The difference here is complex vs clumsy. Gunvalkyrie's controls were complex yet very responsive and not at all clumsy by design.

I think most games have a problem balancing this idea. They want to appeal to as many players as possible, but still make the controls a worthwhile challenge to master. That's what makes the DOA series a punching bag, the gameplay appears to be deep but the controls are so easy (perhaps TOO easy?) to pick up and kick ass.

I think a game's controls should be easy to start but rewarding to master. But I did like Gunvalkyrie's controls and they were NOT EASY to start off with.

I don't know if this helps at all...

Tony

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Original post by Hase Quote: Original post by Kallisti Designers are always looking for ways to make games hard. One way is to make the controls painful to use. After all, going the other direction also have the expected effect - the controls could be made some easy that the game plays itself! actually we´re not. and you´re deep in the country of apples and oranges here - accessibility, usability and difficulty are completely different things. I´ll go out on a limb here, but I assume that any random (professional) designer can explain the difference here and why they don´t mix well.

I'm used to crappy games that mix them together poorly. Makes me cynical.

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Original post by Kallisti Designers are always looking for ways to make games hard. One way is to make the controls painful to use. After all, going the other direction also have the expected effect - the controls could be made some easy that the game plays itself!

What kind of an idiot intentionally designs bad controls? I really doubt anyone has ever said, "Hmm, we need some more difficulty...I know, we'll make the controls clumsy and unresponsive!" That'd be like leaving known game-crashing bugs in the game to keep the players on their toes.