What, no neutrality?

guy_with_a_pexel · 2006-04-23T00:34:28

Okay, so I'm an animation major and taking a storyboarding class right now. He mentioned how protagonists usually enter from the left, and antagonists enter from the right. I asked him "what is the method for having neutral characters enter." He said there was no such thing as a neutral character... So I got really confused, and mentioned a few examples. Like that turtle thing in the never ending story, it seemed neutral because it was completely apathetic. But it's apathy changed the course of the entier movie... seemingly in a negative way, so that makes it an antagonist? But if I remember correctly is entered from the left of the screed... well actually it entered from the bottom, but when we are looking at it in wide shot it's on the left. The definition of neutral means disengaged... so that means to have a neutral character it would need to be a character that has no desires or wants... so lets have a character be a vegetable. Lets make this vegetable be a main character. Everything depends on this vegetable, both the good outcomes and the bad, everyone is depending on him for some reason. So despite what the vegetable wants to happen... the things that happen as an outcome will happen anyway because he has no ability to respond. His inability to respond frees him from the obligation to, thus making him a neutral character. BUT, lets say that all the bad outcomes happen because he is a vegetable. The circumstances then, despite who the character is, happen. Making the character defined then as an antagonist? So a character is defined pro or antagonist based then on the results of his or her responses or lack there of. The story then defines a character, not the character itself... so a character cannot define his own neutrality? I understand that every character is motivated by something, so the fact that there is a motivation means the character is aligned to some side. However, the vegetable I used as an example is not aligned because he lacks the ability to be. He cannot be anything other than what he is... and now that I think about that many movies have adopted that line. "A wolf can't be anyhting other than a wolf" or whatever. So that doesn't change the fact that a wolf is a wolf... just because he lacks ability to be anything else doesn't change his antagonist position. The story could even make us pity the wolf, and he would still be an antagonist. what is everyone elses thoughts?

Writing for Games Game Design

Started by guy_with_a_pexel April 13, 2006 10:05 AM

22 comments, last by guy_with_a_pexel 18 years, 7 months ago

Oluseyi

2,123

April 19, 2006 04:22 PM

Quote: Original post by sunandshadow
If you put a sidetrack in your game I _have_ to explore it. So if I spend 10 extra minutes doing that, by the time I get to the next plot point that's ten more minutes I've had to forget what happened previously, or notice plot holes, or decide the game is boring because the plot is not advancing and quit playing it; all things you never want your audience to do.

And all things that happen far too frequently.

M2tM

948

April 19, 2006 04:43 PM

What do extras used in background noise count as? Like seeing people mulling around in the background in a chick flick where the primary focus is a single male and female at a coffee shop? Nobody else really matters, it just sets the scene.

Are they considered props? Ultimately they don't do anything to affect the story, they serve as atmospheric noise. I think this is about as close to neutral as you can get. If you start to focus on a character, no matter how little they interact with their surroundings they affect the story and if they affect the story they become an antagonist of a protagonist. But if those characters do not interact with any of the primary focus characters and they are not the focus of a scene or of the movie as a whole then I don't see how those labels can be applied.

Cases where crowds become antagonists or protagonists: The Matrix, Wedding Crashers, V for Vengance and many others

But then there are lots of movies that don't actually have the crowd act in any way as a part of the story, where do those fit?

_______________________"You're using a screwdriver to nail some glue to a ming vase. " -ToohrVyk

sunandshadow

7,435

April 19, 2006 05:16 PM

Quote: Original post by M2tM
What do extras used in background noise count as? Like seeing people mulling around in the background in a chick flick where the primary focus is a single male and female at a coffee shop? Nobody else really matters, it just sets the scene.

Are they considered props?

Yes those don't count as characters, they are human props/scenery.

I want to help design a "sandpark" MMO. Optional interactive story with quests and deeply characterized NPCs, plus sandbox elements like player-craftable housing and lots of other crafting. If you are starting a design of this type, please PM me. I also love pet-breeding games.

guy_with_a_pexel

Author

126

April 23, 2006 12:34 AM

Quote: I don't ever buy into universal rules like "there are no neutral characters."
People always try to come up with principals like that and I just throw them out the window. So my stories may end up weird, but at least they're not boring and mostly original.

hmm... didn't realize this discussion got so much responces. Anywho, it's not so much a rule as it is a matter of fact now that I understand it.

What, no neutrality?

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What, no neutrality?

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