I'll be graduating soon and beginning my job hunt. I've read most of the articles on gamedev about getting into the industry but I still have some questions. First, let me state my qualifications: Bachelors in computer science. Minor in math. I have no commercial experience but I've written some side projects (optimized terrain rendering, physics simulation, etc.) I've been programming since I was 14 and I know a little of everything. I truly love games. I'm also a pretty likeable guy! :) So here are some questions: 1. What is the probable amount of time I will have to wait before I can begin working somewhere. I'm willing to move almost anywhere and I will be applying to as many game-related programming jobs as possible. 2. Should I consider applying as a tester instead? Should I state on an application that I would consider a job in Q/A? 3. How much should I expect to get paid? 4. Should I avoid companies with bad reputations like Midway and EA. Will these companies be my only choice? Don't get me wrong, I'm ready to work as much overtime as needed, but I want a job that will help me move towards becomming a lead programmer. Thanks in advance! Evan Rogers

Hi Evan, you asked:

>1. What is the probable amount of time I will have to wait before I can begin working somewhere.

It could take a long time, depending on whether you do the search the right way or the usual way. Read FAQs 27 and 24 on my site (see sig). I'm not trying to sell you anything - I have nothing to sell you.

>I'm willing to move almost anywhere and I will be applying to as many game-related programming jobs as possible.

You need to move first. It's unlikely you'll get any offers long-distance. Read those FAQs.

>2. Should I consider applying as a tester instead?

Focus first on what you're trained for, but if you don't get anything and money's running out, and you can get testing work, then take it.

>Should I state on an application that I would consider a job in Q/A?

I'm guessing that no application form will have an entry for you to put that in. And I don't advise offering that info in cover letters.

>3. How much should I expect to get paid?

Read the Salary Survey. Current issue of GD has the latest survey - old surveys can be read on Gamasutra.

>4. Should I avoid companies with bad reputations like Midway and EA.

What's the bad rep those companies have? If you live in Chicago and you can't move and the only company that offers you a job is Midway, you could do worse than to take it. If you live near an EA office and they give you an offer, jump at it. I assume you're talking about the "spouse" rant and the QOL issue?

>Will these companies be my only choice?

Silly question.

Good luck!

[Edited by - tsloper on April 9, 2006 10:39:50 PM]

Thanks, Tom. I had read through much of your site a couple years ago. I'm glad someone takes the time to share that kind of information.

I realize the duration of my job search could be indefinite if I screw it up in all sorts of very possible ways. But suppose I don't and everything goes smoothly. I still have no idea how slowly the human resources departments of these companies actually work. Is it unrealistic to expect that I could be working in a week? A month? A year? What is a realistic but ideal estimate?

- Evan

Evan:

>suppose I don't and everything goes smoothly. I still have no idea how slowly the human resources departments of these companies actually work. Is it unrealistic to expect that I could be working in a week? A month? A year? What is a realistic but ideal estimate?

From the time somebody says to you, "you've got the job," it would be within days (if not the next day).

Tom

Okay great! Sorry for being such a n00b. This is a stressful phase of life and it helps to know what to expect. Thanks again!

- Evan

1. It purely depends on the company ,some move lightning fast and some can takes for ever (i.e. 5 weeks to get back to you to set up an initial phone interview), and then once you accept the offered job then it'll take longer if relocation is involved etc, really it just depends, just be ready to move fast if needed or be honest if you have a certain timescale in mind and make sure they know that.

2. My opinion, if you want to be a programmer then apply for programmer positions, don't even consider QA positions it might have been the 'in' in the past but you're just gonna end up stuck in QA resenting it and learning nothing (relatively speaking) and having no real oppertunity to progress to programming. If you state that you'd consider QA then you're basically saying you think you're not very good, and if you think that then why should the interviewer think any different? Be sure of your skills and what you want from the job, and stick to it.

3. Again depends on country, position, benfits etc. Do some research, make some cost of living calculations and just make sure that you are happy with the amount. When I first looked for work I had a set figure in mind and point blank refused anything under, there's no point taking work if you can't afford to live off of it.

4. Don't discount any companies, do a fair assesment of them, remember the interview is both way, I expect the company to impress me as well as me impress them. Both EA and Midway have their pluses and negatives, but so do other smaller companies.

And lastly..and sorry for this but, quote 'I'm ready to work as much overtime as needed'

... DEAR GOD NO!!!....

We HAVE to get out of the mindset that overtime is a standard expected part of the business, yes there are milestones, yes you will probably end up working some overtime, yes unforseen things happen and you have to deal with them, but please please please do not enter this industry as a graduate with that attitude, we need to move beyond that to a point where it's not the normal thing to do, otherwise the industry will continue to be stuck in a situation where people accept overtime as part of the job. You'll end up doing it I assure you :), but you have to realise that it is wrong and a bad thing (disclaimer: said advice should be used with care, but it does allow you to have a life)

Sorry but it's a pet rant of mine :)

Paul

Haha, thanks. I don't mean to set a low standard but I'm young and naive and I really want to work in games so if it comes to rediculous overtime or no sweet game programming job I'll take rediculous overtime any day. However, I'll try not to let the employer know that and hopefully I can do better. :)

- Evan

Evan, you don't get it. If you say that you are willing to work ridiculous overtime, they will oblige you. It won't be a "sweet game programming job". Instead it'll be months of sheer hell with your boss breathing down your neck. You will likely get burnt out and quit the industry.

Well, in my mind, when I get a new job, I tend to work my ass off. That alone could lead into a lot of overtime, but hell, if you like the job - who cares? You're not showing weakness if you like to work. Some people truely love to work because in their mind it doesn't feel like work, it feels like fun.

(NOTE: my own perception on your questions, I am not in industry)

1. Depends on a lot of things.
A) How Proactive are you when finding a job
B) Your Skillset (being great tends to get you a job real quick)
C) Your Personality (you said your a likeable guy, so that'll help)
D) The Industry (Hiring?)

2. I have been pondering this one recently. I am not quite sure that when I get out of college, I will have exactly what a company needs for a programmer (though I still have 2 years to get up to speed). I DO want to work at a game development studio, so likely I wonder if I should get a job as a Game Designer first. I'll work on programming on the offtime, and eventually work my way up the chain. Likely if your doing optimized terrain rendering and physics simulation, it sounds like you'll be fine trying to get in as an associate pogrammer.

3. Look at some salary surveys.

4. I don't see anything wrong with EA or Midway. If I were you and you want to be in, lets say, California, I would hit up every studio I could find an address too. My main goal after school will be to go after Sigil, Sony, and Blizzard. More so on Sigil. Do your research on some companies, get to know some people that work there by simply throwing them an e-mail. Be proactive.

NOTE:
If you do want to be programmer, definitely work on a DEMO presenting your skills. Find exactly what area you want to go into (Tools, 3D, Physics, etc). If I were the employeer, the numero uno thing I would really want to get my hands on would be some source code/demo that my interviewee wrote.

Goodluck!
-Dave

2) No. Programmers often don't get along well with testers. If you want to move into programming, don't start in a field that the people hiring you don't like. Of the people I've known that started in testing with sights on (usually) design, it's a dead end anyway.