Maybe there should be links to the OpenGL RedBook and Bluebook, these would be usefull for users who would like to learn more in depth about OpenGL functions etc.

Also platform specifics?? maybe we could have tutorials split up into different sections for each OS (Windows, MacOS, Unix/Linux, Platform Independant) and also a archive for old out-dated tutorials for peaple using old software/hardware. I would help but i am completely useless.

I havent visited NeHe in a while and im glad that updating is being discussed. I have a few suggestions:

1.) Each tutorial should have its own FAQ link, this will help prevent common questions being repeatedly displayed on the forum. (e.g. I have linker errors etc.)

2.) I think new re-formatted tutorials should be on a separate page so on the main site you have 2 links; Updated Tutorials, Nehe Classic Tutorials. At least until the updated editions have caught up with the old ones.

3.) I personally think that using SDL for the new tutorials would be an excellent idea. Although its nice to know the Win32 stuff, a.) not everyone wants to write for windows and b.) If anyone wants to find out it will be in the old tutorials anyway. SDL will reduce the initialisation code so that tutorials can focus on whats important, OpenGL.

4.) I think the new tutorials should definately match the original subjects like for like.

5.) Also IMO the first thing to do is write a new basecode on which to base the tutorials, one that can be linked on the site and downloaded and tested by people before the tutorials are adapted. The basecode should be version numbered.

6.) For the C or C++ argument, I dont think it matters which is used as long as only ONE is used. My preference is C++, because it will help modularise the code, and more importantly we dont want to write tutorials in C just to have to change them to C++ in about 5 years time because of the increasing general preference towards C++.

7.) The addition of Game Engine tutorials, remember ShiningKnight's ones and how popular/useful they were! I believe this kind of tutorials could teach the other stuff thats not OpenGL.

8.) I think we should define some coding standards for the tutorials, i.e naming conventions, layout standards etc. This will make it easier for people learning from the tutorials.

I would love to help in the restoration of Nehe, without Nehe I wouldnt know what programming was, discovering Nehe as actually effected my whole life because now im a software engineer :D

Quote: Original post by Kazade
I havent visited NeHe in a while and im glad that updating is being discussed. I have a few suggestions:

1.) Each tutorial should have its own FAQ link, this will help prevent common questions being repeatedly displayed on the forum. (e.g. I have linker errors etc.)

i love that idea.

Quote:
2.) I think new re-formatted tutorials should be on a separate page so on the main site you have 2 links; Updated Tutorials, Nehe Classic Tutorials. At least until the updated editions have caught up with the old ones.

i'm not so sure about that. i've seen heaps of code on the site that should never be handed to a beginner. i recall a piece of code using a bit-shift with a comment saying something like "a pretty way of saying *=2". there's a good amount of code that teaches beginners poor practices.

Quote:
3.) I personally think that using SDL for the new tutorials would be an excellent idea. Although its nice to know the Win32 stuff, a.) not everyone wants to write for windows and b.) If anyone wants to find out it will be in the old tutorials anyway. SDL will reduce the initialisation code so that tutorials can focus on whats important, OpenGL.

i love sdl, but i'd rather see a custom, multi-platform basecode with minimal external dependencies. the code itself should be kept as separate as possible from the content of the tutorial itself.

Quote:
6.) For the C or C++ argument, I dont think it matters which is used as long as only ONE is used. My preference is C++, because it will help modularise the code, and more importantly we dont want to write tutorials in C just to have to change them to C++ in about 5 years time because of the increasing general preference towards C++.

i'd like to see multiple popular languages covered, but i also prefer c++.

Quote:
8.) I think we should define some coding standards for the tutorials, i.e naming conventions, layout standards etc. This will make it easier for people learning from the tutorials.

hell yes.

Quote: Original post by gumpy macdrunken

Quote: Original post by Kazade
I havent visited NeHe in a while and im glad that updating is being discussed. I have a few suggestions:

1.) Each tutorial should have its own FAQ link, this will help prevent common questions being repeatedly displayed on the forum. (e.g. I have linker errors etc.)

i love that idea.

Ditto, that's a pretty good idea.

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Quote:
6.) For the C or C++ argument, I dont think it matters which is used as long as only ONE is used. My preference is C++, because it will help modularise the code, and more importantly we dont want to write tutorials in C just to have to change them to C++ in about 5 years time because of the increasing general preference towards C++.

i'd like to see multiple popular languages covered, but i also prefer c++.

I think the current system of linking translations in various additional languages is probably good. Ideally the explanation in the tutorials should be good enough that someone with an understanding of a different language only needs a code sample to be able to follow along in thier own language.

Quote:

Quote:
8.) I think we should define some coding standards for the tutorials, i.e naming conventions, layout standards etc. This will make it easier for people learning from the tutorials.

hell yes.

Definitely. Having a series of standards would make the tutorials much more coherent from one to the next, and would also give new authors more direction with what they should do.

Quote: Original post by Kazgoroth

Quote:

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8.) I think we should define some coding standards for the tutorials, i.e naming conventions, layout standards etc. This will make it easier for people learning from the tutorials.

hell yes.

Definitely. Having a series of standards would make the tutorials much more coherent from one to the next, and would also give new authors more direction with what they should do.

Does any one know if any standard formatting/naming already documented on the internet (maybe for an open source project or another site) that we could perhaps borrow for our own uses rather than write our own?

Luke.

We've got various things in the works about this. More news soon [smile].

Quote: Original post by Andrew Russell
Uh. You better go and look up std::string and std::ostringstream. They're effective replacements for char* and the ellipses construct respectively.

It sounds like you've been exposed to some fairly poor C++ coding practices, if you're suggesting their use. This is something we're trying to counter-act - by making NeHe (a great beginners resource) up to date with correct, modern C++ usage - so that new programmers pick up these things.

I use std stuff when appropriate, but sometimes char* is the best way to do the job.

and std::ostringstream is not a replacement for ellipses. (wherever did you get THAT idea?). As the name implies, stringstream is for streaming information. The ellipses is for passing arguments to functions. Two very different things.

I've been exposed to all sorts of coding practices. My code compiles and runs on 7 different platforms (that are not all posix complient). So I think I'm safe when I say I know what I'm doing.

However, I understand that you feel that "correct" C++ doesn't use some of the functionality that is built into it. This would be a mistake. Correct C++ does not have to use the std library, which is not actually part of the language. (It's a library)

My concern here, is not so much in defending my position as a good programmer, but to point out, that the std in all compilers do not all work as advertised. You will find more Cross Platform/Compiler/Processor differences if you use the STD. If on the other hand you use C++ as an extention to C and rely on external libraries as little as possible, then you will have fewer problems.

I do wish you success in this venture and I will try to help out where I can.

I thought that std stuff worked across compilers/platforms now as its a err...... standard?

You'd think so wouldn't you.

Different compilers use RTTI in different ways, and some versions of the STD use those as well. Some C++ compilers are very limited, (embedded software) others are complete.

If the code is written for a compiler that works across multiple platforms then that would be the safest. (gcc would be my recommendation). If the same code works for gcc,metrowerks,microsoft and borland then you can probably feel safe that you've got the bases covered.

In some ways what NeHe did was very smart. He put the code up there, with his tutorial and let others port it to other compilers. He then took those changes and if appropriate, backported to his original code. He ended up with code that worked on multiple compliers (and languages) and operating systems. Not too shabby in my opinion.

Yeah, I must agree I like how theres source code available for different compiler/os types. I'm pretty new here but here's few suggestions I havent seen already.

- If possible maybe look into seperating the tutorials into different categories when reviewing/updating them. Maybe group them by difficulty level (begginer/novice/advanced/etc).

- I like the idea of creating a newer framework for the tutorials. Also creating the framework could be the subject of a few begginer tuts. I've already modified my lesson1 tutorial to somewhat do this, I just use a seperate init function thats always called by glInit() to setup anything lesson specific.

- As for updating all the tutorials, i think this is a good idea. But rather than fixing each lesson that uses glaux, why not just make 1 begginer tutorial that will teach ppl one or more ways to fix the problem theirselves. I know it took me a while to get them working right, i couldnt get the glaux replacement code working right. But hey I learned from figuring it out myself so all the better.

- I've seen alot of talk about using sdl or other things like that for the lessons. Personally i'd rather just see an updated NeHe framework done with good tutorials showing how. But I wouldnt mind seeing some tutorials on setting up and/or basics of using some other libraries like these. Dont think all tutorials should be based on them tho. Its too much personal preference, and if ppl want to use other libraries/frameworks then let them figure out how redo lessons with them theirselves, they'll learn from it.

Thats all I can think of atm, hope it helps. Also thanks to everyone at NeHe for what is being planned, and all the work thats already been done, I appreciate it very much.