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Original post by Sneftel Yeah. I know what you mean. I hated GTA and Halo 2 and FarCry and World of Warcraft and Deus Ex and Max Payne and Half-Life 2 and God of War and Psychonauts and Call of Duty and Zelda and Ninja Gaiden and Prince of Persia and Kingdom Hearts and Mario Kart and Metal Gear Solid and Metroid Prime and Quake. 'Tiddly' is where it's at.

you did not get my point.... those games are all good games... but they were not planned by one 17 year old dude that hangs on in this game design forum ;)

persons comming in here asking for a comment or recommendation on games that claims to mix 4 of those games in one while redefining the genre sounds silly and is just plain " mental masturbation " . Is or her plan will never leave the plan stage. Nothing else but talk talk talk and hypothetical blah blah blah

my comment / recommendation was that they start doing realistic plans at first than move on to more and more complex game designs.

in other words... learn how to make models before talking about re-inventing engineering ;)

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Original post by sinx you did not get my point.... those games are all good games... but they were not planned by one 17 year old dude that hangs on in this game design forum ;) persons comming in here asking for a comment or recommendation on games that claims to mix 4 of those games in one while redefining the genre sounds silly and is just plain " mental masturbation " . Is or her plan will never leave the plan stage. Nothing else but talk talk talk and hypothetical blah blah blah

What's wrong with mental masturbation?

As I said much earlier, this is a hobby for many people. Completing the game is not as important as designing it, fleshing out the story, being creative with concepts and trying to determine if features are feasible.

The problem lies with you, and with your notion that everyone who participates here must strive to complete their game or otherwise is "wasting time." It's okay, I used to think the same way. Many people just come here for the community, for the opportunity to critique existing games and advance ideas they'd like to see implemented in games on the off chance that someone actually goes ahead and makes a game incorporating their desired feature.

*shrug* It's really not a big deal.

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Original post by sinx Quote: Original post by Sneftel Yeah. I know what you mean. I hated GTA and Halo 2 and FarCry and World of Warcraft and Deus Ex and Max Payne and Half-Life 2 and God of War and Psychonauts and Call of Duty and Zelda and Ninja Gaiden and Prince of Persia and Kingdom Hearts and Mario Kart and Metal Gear Solid and Metroid Prime and Quake. 'Tiddly' is where it's at. you did not get my point.... those games are all good games... but they were not planned by one 17 year old dude that hangs on in this game design forum ;) persons comming in here asking for a comment or recommendation on games that claims to mix 4 of those games in one while redefining the genre sounds silly and is just plain " mental masturbation " . Is or her plan will never leave the plan stage. Nothing else but talk talk talk and hypothetical blah blah blah my comment / recommendation was that they start doing realistic plans at first than move on to more and more complex game designs. in other words... learn how to make models before talking about re-inventing engineering ;)

But if someone was going to do Yet Another testris or pong clone, why would they post about it here? "Hey, how do you guys think I should design my Pong clone?" "Dude, you should make it just like Pong!" Generally, people only post here when they're looking for input on something more complex. You're sort of asking why a book club never discusses how interesting the alphabet is. Besides, this is the Design forum, not the Implementation forum. This is exactly where all posts for "impossible games that will probably never get made but would be interesting to theorize about" should go.

hehe nevermind... they is a world of difference between pong and massive multiplayer universe simulators powered by ever changing real time server based deep spiritual gameplay influenced by layers of dual time spectrum planes.( i know it doest make sense.. thats how i feel reading lots of gamedesign ideas )

i guess what i ment is that too many aspiring gamedesigners are thinking the more far fetch or difficult to grasp their gamedesign ideas are the better ?

when you are creating a game the things that are difficult to design are actually the basics ( well for me anyway ). I once spent 3 weeks trying to think of what 40x40 pixel forms to use in a puzzle game. I could have wrote 40 pages of far fetch game design ideas during that time lapse ;)

i understand the moderators point of view and that many people prefer making game "theories" and dont plan on working on the actual game passed the main design ideas... yeah i know i use to do that too :) making elaborate storyboards of cgi sequences i could never find time or talent to create. I got reminded i use to do that ;)

but i just wish there was more people putting their efforts into making realistic designs because those could eventually become indie games and i like playing indie games.

not enough indie games are being produced ! :D complexity is not the answer , cleverness is !

good luck making those games ! ;)

This is more of a "brain storm" area. Where people put up their ideas to get more ideas about them.

If you know about brain storming then you will understand that while doing it, you don't try to make judgements on it. You have to let the creativity out.

What you seem to have trouble with is that we are brain storming and posting wild ideas. But this is exactly what we are attempting to do, so that we can get the few realy good nuggets of game mechanics and ideas that go into those clasics.

So an overly complex game idea at this stage is good. When we examine the ideas we can see what works and what doesn't. And then build a game around those good ideas.

As for implimenting them. I, personally, am unable to impliment my ideas due to an injury, but this doesn't make me want to stop designing. Once you have explored many of the simpler game ideas, one will naturally wnat to exersize the creative muscles and try to come up with a chalenge, complex games are one source of this (the next chalenge is to simplify that design).

Not that complexity is itself is the problem but it seems on average the more complex the idea is the more vague and illogical it is

[Edited by - Kaze on March 21, 2006 8:39:05 PM]

Complexity itself can certainly be a problem, because a complex project takes more time and organized effort and can often seem overwhelming, such that people get bored or confused or feel like giving up. I have to continually fight not to be daunted by the fact that after more than 2 years of development Xenallure is less than half completed.

I really love 2D side-scrollers, but I only created those types of games when I was still fairly new to game development. When I finally got around to 3D, I mostly abandoned such simple games for more technical challenges.

I was drawn to more epic problems. Rendering an entire highly detailed city. Rendering a galaxy to scale, including textured and lit planets. Having hundreds of spaceships fly around and fight. Those things are not as much fun to play (at least not the first two, which were just engines) but creating them was more rewarding and exciting than creating a puzzle game in a week.

As Oluseyi said, it's about the journey, not just the end product.

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Original post by CGameProgrammer As Oluseyi said, it's about the journey, not just the end product.

Or possibly, it's about whether you create for yourself, or for an audience.

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Original post by sinx i guess what i ment is that too many aspiring gamedesigners are thinking the more far fetch or difficult to grasp their gamedesign ideas are the better ? when you are creating a game the things that are difficult to design are actually the basics ( well for me anyway ). I once spent 3 weeks trying to think of what 40x40 pixel forms to use in a puzzle game. I could have wrote 40 pages of far fetch game design ideas during that time lapse ;) not enough indie games are being produced ! :D complexity is not the answer , cleverness is !

I am going to drive half on sinx lane, half outside.

I should give sinx a lot of credit for his ideas and I submit to them. I think there is a lot to meditate upon "3 weeks of analysing the basic bit of game".

I differentiate some goals of many users:

1. Users who want to figure out game concepts, but they are poorly defined from a theory perspective due to dependencies on genres or perspective type. Concepts are more human oriented than technology oriented. And accordingly to "A theory of fun in game design" book humanity means templates not instances. What you see in many games are instances of a concept. Most people come with another instance w/o understanding the core concept behind. I think we should be able to figure out concepts and which a game shares it with another one before we can "advance" the industry with a new revolutionary game. Clones are only poorly instanced or wrong understood concepts.

2. Users who want to become game designers and are exercising with game designs documents or specific ideas but they are loosing from sight the core concepts. Those are people who can't state their ideas clearly and they hide this under a big hood of a MMORPG or another monster game.

I find the hardest part of design the same thing sinx said: designing the invisible laws which rule the atom interraction not the planets.

I'm looking forward very excited what this thread will bring at surface. :)