http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=3601 any budding MMORPG designers may wish to think about the issues within.

To the anonymous poster. I'm glad you think griefing is fun, but don't give excuses to how it makes other players come together, or strengthens the playerbase. As designer, I intend to put in easy ways for people to ignore griefers, report them, and easy ways for staff to enforce them. People who grief others because they enjoy it are not people I want money from. IMO, they're small-brained kids who think that the anonymity of an online game gives them immunity from consequence.

Not on my game, it won't.

I agree! Ganking just for fun is ludicrous. If a game had meaningful PvP there might be reasons.

In my design a greifer will find consequences and won't be able to get anything done at all. For all the other players are concerned, a greifer will be a wild man running around in the woods with a wooden club. He will never be accepted into a community where goods and services are exchanged.

EVE.

Griefing is one of the most profitable courses of action in that game, and a single low-level ore thief can can a week's pay in a single day by baiting miners, stealing resources and generally being a total dick. But if three miners get together and set a trap for that jackass, he can lose three days' worth of profits in three minutes via the destruction of his battlecruiser.

I am proud to have had a hand in the reduction of ore thieving in the Isanamo system. My corporation and I did enough thief-baiting and ship-nuking that you can now mine without the ridiculous and hindering safety precautions, because the thieves never know when we'll warp in from the sun and torch their gankmobile.

How's that for a dynamic world?

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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage EVE. Griefing is one of the most profitable courses of action in that game, and a single low-level ore thief can can a week's pay in a single day by baiting miners, stealing resources and generally being a total dick. But if three miners get together and set a trap for that jackass, he can lose three days' worth of profits in three minutes via the destruction of his battlecruiser. I am proud to have had a hand in the reduction of ore thieving in the Isanamo system. My corporation and I did enough thief-baiting and ship-nuking that you can now mine without the ridiculous and hindering safety precautions, because the thieves never know when we'll warp in from the sun and torch their gankmobile. How's that for a dynamic world?

I haven't played EVE, but what you're describing doesn't particularly sound like "griefing" to me; it's just standard PvP. I would imagine ore-stealing is an intended part of the game design. Your counter-measure worked only because they were originally stealing because it was good for their character advancement, and you made it bad for their character advancement. Griefing, in contrast, generally has nothing at all to do with making your character better; its sole purpose is to ruin other people's experiences and generally be a nuisance because you think it's funny. And the people who do it either don't care about their character's fate, or do it in such a way that it's impossible for the person they're annoying to affect their character.

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Original post by ellis1138 To the anonymous poster. I'm glad you think griefing is fun, but don't give excuses to how it makes other players come together, or strengthens the playerbase. As designer, I intend to put in easy ways for people to ignore griefers, report them, and easy ways for staff to enforce them. People who grief others because they enjoy it are not people I want money from. IMO, they're small-brained kids who think that the anonymity of an online game gives them immunity from consequence. Not on my game, it won't.

That's just sad. I enjoy griefing, sadly if given the right environment. Again, Shadowbane is a good example of "griefing can be good". Those with the opposite philosophy(quote "small-brained kids who think that the anonymity of an online game gives them immunity from consequence") as you brand think your kind are 'care-bears'. Then again, griefing in Shadowbane does have consequences but within the game itself - not some stupid GM who pops up and bans you. You might ignite war with nations, make yourself a public enemy, etc..etc..etc..

I don't know, but I find these type of people deserve a bit more respect than you are giving them credit for.

Griefing can be quite irritating, too.

I admin'd on a player-run roleplay-centric Ultima Online server. There was one evening I was 'on duty'. Some bonehead decided to create a character called "chicken f**ker", run around naked, and moon people. Of course this upset a good many people (the community prided itself on maintaining a fantasy atmosphere).

A few insta-kill-lightning bolts and a ban later, things were back to normal.

they should have unstoppable NPC's that hunt down people like that. esp ganking in wow its such a pain in that ass.

I think this is a case of people using terms differently. As I use it, thieving, kill-stealing, ganking, PK'ing, these things aren't necessarily the same thing as griefing. Nor is a 'prank' the same thing as griefing. Griefing is specifically meant to *ruin* the gameplay experience for others. Not as a side-effect, but the as main goal.

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I don't know, but I find these type of people deserve a bit more respect than you are giving them credit for.

For what? A "might makes right" philosophy that hasn't been acceptable outside of high school bullies, criminals, and tyrants since the Magna Carta?

No. They deserve swift and effective 'consequence'. Sure, using community backlash or ingame mechanisms is great, but it is near impossible to use those and ensure that they aren't used for griefing in the first place. Algorithms are poor judges of intent.