Quote: Original post by OrangyTang
Against my better judgement, I'm going to say something which might be considered controversial, but what the hell...

Your comments aren't controversial. At least, I don't think they are.

I think the crux of the issue is that the majority of today's mainstream games are actually pretty bad. There are more people not playing them than playing them. In addition, the media obsession with "gamer culture" feeds into the notion that those are the only games that matter. Ha!

There are good games out there, very good games. And good games get played by everyone, regardless of gender, creed, race, economic status, social status, age... The solution to attracting more women and other "underrepresented" demographics to any segment of the market is to populate it with better games. It's not the complexity of FPS controls that put people off; it's the lack of a gentle learning curve, the lack of guidance, the lack of no-penalty practice, the lack of tips being disseminated within the game (you have to frequent message boards populated with foul-mouthed and libidinous zit-faced fuckers to find out about rocket jumps and so forth). Basically, the game is technically sound, but everything that makes it desirable to play is missing.

The male:female gaming debate is all misdirection. We should be looking at good:better. I think, for instance, that despite being very "male," my gaming habits closely mirror those of your stereotypical woman. Most games don't give me a compelling reason to play: I don't care about "pwning" or "0wnz0ring" some chump on the internet with a handle like "[Sh0t_G0dz]Ur_M0m_Liekz_M3_B3ttar," nor do I care enough about global rankings to play a game for 20 hours each week. Strip that out and there's no reason to play most "hardcore," mainstream games.

Yeah, we know, "Nobody plays games for the story." Except that they do. People play for the premise, for the fully-realized environment and context, for the narrative advance - for the social and emotional investment in an engaging fantasy.

Don't "dumb down" the controls; teach them to us. Don't slap pastel colors all over the place; give us engaging and plausible characterizations. Don't throw in "constituency concessions"; give us premises that everyone wants to play.

Make better games.

The IGDA actually has an entire SIG dedicated to women in gaming (both players and industry members) and I would HIGHLY recommend you look through their mailing list archive, I think you will find some great posts in there that you will find very interesting. From my side, I don't think there's necessarily anything insulting in accepting that women and men are different, think differently, and my enjoy different things. I agree it's bad to pigeonhole people, and forcing anyone to play any particular kind of game because it's 'not right' for their sex is stupid. The fact is, however, that the vast majority of AAA titles are designed in every way to appeal to the male psyche, and these will not always appeal to women. It is also a fact that there are only so many males that will play games, and that this market is all but saturated. It may be risky to try something different and appeal to women, but the rewards are HUGE.

To answer your questions more directly:

1) I think Alusyi makes an excellent point, one needs to realise that 'gaming' is far broader than whatever AAA console or PC title is doing the rounds. Casual games, mobile games, and others need to be included in the mix. When we consider all of these together, I do not think there is quite as much of a shortage of female players, however it does indicate that in general female players gravitate towards a different kind of game. I am not by any means saying there are no women/girls playing the BF2s and Quake4s of the world, but I do not think they portray the mainstream by any stretch. So no, I don't think it is as much of a female hobby as a male one yet.

2) There are many things that can be done, including:
-Design games that appeal more to women and their play style and preferences. This could be as big as creating a new genre that focuses on the social preferences of women, or as small as realising that many women prefer to have a complete understanding of how to play a game before actually attempting it.
-Normalise gaming as a female passtime. In those WIGD archives you will find mention of one member's attempts to get a number of major women's publications to print game reviews, these efforts were blocked as the magazines did not believe their audience would ever play games.
-Be more accepting and sensitive to women in social gaming environments. Put plainly this means 'try to act at least partially human at public LANs'. This also extends to the way many women react to being made inferior because they are new at something. They want encouragement, not insults.
-Allow women to relistically represent themselves in games. Newsflash: not all women WANT to play an insanely proportioned nymphette dressed in nothing but a dragonskin bikini. You may find it sexy, she may find it insulting.

As I said in point one, I am generalizing here. I am by no means saying that NO women play the kinds of games most men enjoy, but not all of them DO want to play those games.

Quote: Original post by Takaloy
Did you ever-ever look for the movement controls when you first played WoW? Or by default you know it's WASD?

Is a male child born knowing WASD? So why does it become a worthwhile assumption about male vs female HCI?

That just sounds like lazy reasoning.

Quote: Original post by OrangyTang
(Er, in summary, buy your kids Lego and let them make up their own mind [grin] ).

Legos!! Gosh, I have to say that I think I got more enjoyment and satisfaction out of a basic box of Legos as a kid than any video game to this day!

Come to think of it, does Lego even make just basic building sets anymore? Last time I was in a Lego store so many sets were based around movie franchises or looked like kits to make very specific things. Not as much imagination involved there, and didn't look nearly as engrossing.

Hmm, there's something to think about. Things that let us use our imaginations and don't force-feed us a pre-packaged theme are enjoyable. Sounds like that might cross gender lines pretty well! [wink]

Quote: Original post by Muzo72

Quote: Original post by OrangyTang
(Er, in summary, buy your kids Lego and let them make up their own mind [grin] ).

Legos!! Gosh, I have to say that I think I got more enjoyment and satisfaction out of a basic box of Legos as a kid than any video game to this day!

Damn crazy yanks, the pural of Lego is Lego. 'Legos' does not exist. Thank you. And I belive they still do 'proper' kits which aren't just a few special pieces and extras, but you've got to look a little harder for them is all.

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi
Most games don't give me a compelling reason to play: I don't care about "pwning" or "0wnz0ring" some chump on the internet with a handle like "[Sh0t_G0dz]Ur_M0m_Liekz_M3_B3ttar," nor do I care enough about global rankings to play a game for 20 hours each week. Strip that out and there's no reason to play most "hardcore," mainstream games.

To each his own. I love mainstream FPS and don't get into "death matches" or high scores or "pwning" anyone. You seem to be painting with a very broad brush in this thread.