Maybe you're all tired of these threads by now, but I don't want to spend a few years developing something in vein (as I'm not going to be a programmer after I finish school, since I'm not "educated" to be one. I'm going to be a CNC-operator or a welder or something). Is it impossible for me to make a 2D isometric smaller-scale MMORPG (maybe a few hundred players per server)? I spent a couple of months in 2004 with an open-source game server for another smaller-scale MMORPG, implementing new features etc, when I was still not very good with C++, and learned a whole lot. I also spent almost the whole 2005 gathering ideas for the game and learned 2D graphics programming using OpenGL inside out, I also read articles and source code on how MMORPG servers are designed. I'm currently writing the graphics engine, as I don't think any engine out there has the features I want. I'm using many third-party libraries such as GLFW, TinyXml, LUA, FreeType etc, to cut development times. The only thing that I'm writing that I could use a library for instead is the image loader, as I can't really find one that fits my need. I want a light-weight, cross-platform, fast and zlib-ish licensed image loader. Should I drop the project? Is it impossible for me to make the client, server and website (registration, account management etc) myself? I won't have to make the graphics myself, as I got people doing that for me. Maybe I posted this in the wrong place, I had a hard time deciding where to put this. If this is the wrong location, please move it to where it belongs. Thank you all in advance, and sorry for my English and for the long post. :) Yours, storage.

I see no reason why it should be impossible. It may take a long time, as it would for anyone to make any sort of in-depth game by themselves, but not impossible. If game programming is not your career decision, that's fine, you are then by definition a hobbyist, as are plenty of others including myself around these parts.

If you have a passion to create games, even if not as a career, then go for it, make a new function in your spare time and finally, when you do have a finished game, you'll have something that you can be proud of.

Good luck, happy programming,

Vopisk

Sure its possible, but prehaps you'd get better results from something other than an MMORPG. How about just a single-player RPG? You could probably use most, if not all, of your current code. And Single player RPGs are Teh Best.

BTW, SDL has nice, simple image loading functions. One simple SDL_LoadBMP() and you've got your image! It can do other formats too, I believe. Check it out.

What do you mean not educated? You can become a C++ master in just a couple of months if you pick up a few books and dedicate your time to studying. Game design too. If you have a good imagination, you're set. Now, really, if you mean you're not "good enough" to get into university and have some credits you can show some publishers or big time employers or something like that... well, don't worry about it. You don't need university to work for anyone in the game industry. If you can prove what you can do, you're in.

In fact, most people in the game industry didn't even go to some kind of college or something to study it. Most of the people I know in it studied drama or took tourism or something like that. Study by yourself, create something cool, show people. That's how it works.

Now, as for your MMORPG... it doesn't sound impossible. You can most likely do it if you study some more and stay dedicated to it.

I wish you luck on your project. Keep thinking up ideas and apply them. You'll do fine.

I agree totally with Vopisk, as long as you like to do it. I also hobby alot with writing app's in C++, currently busy with my own RPG that I planning in making into MMORPG one day (well not IN one day of course :D). I got tons and tons of ideas that I would like to implant some day (most likely I won't live long enough to implant them all...). You'll see that your plans might change when you grow older and priorities will shift.

Something I realised the last years of my education is alot of doors open when you talk alot about it. Many people know people who have the same interests and priorities or in my case an entire new education is being started next year, which I partically caused. I listen what other people say and recommend.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that, your solo project easily can evolve in a group project. Just continue what you like to do. When you finished something in ten years, you will still be proud on it and most likely fills you with satisfaction.

Regards,

Xeile

There's no reason for it to be impossible, as far as development is concerned, especially if you have help with graphics, sound and script creation.

The main reason these projects tend to fail (from unfunded indies) is lack of commitment. There is a HELL OF A LOT to learn. Using third party libraries left right and centre isn't the answer, if you don't understand exactly what they're doing. 'Black box' coding is always confusing. Be wary of it.

Having 'a few hundred players per server' doesn't make your task any easier. Most modern MMO's only cope with a few hundred players per server. They do however have a lot of servers per game world. Don't cut corners on your event notification culling (spread & propogation) or spatial divisioning. You will need it.

If anything having a single-box architecture for your server can make your task more difficult, especially if you're having mobile entities outside of your players' view. This may require that practically the entire game world be loaded up on one server. Plan your game design accordingly. I won't drag this thread into a discussion on server architecture.

It's this absolutely necessary groundwork that is the commitment killer. Loads of people start MMO projects without a willingness to do the proper planning - they seem to just want to get something running, and then features in, as soon as possible, and in these projects, that can be fatal.

You've done at least some background research (and that's refreshing!) which to me indicates you'd be willing to spend the time figuring out how best to solve the issues unique to your design, before wasting that time implementing something only to have to strip it out later.

Don't rush, you'll get there.

It's not impossible to do yourself, but it will take a LONG time.

If you take a look at similar functions of unrelated projects, then you can kinda break it down into small sections, and slowly evolve your engine to what you want it to be. The important part here is to plan before you take steps, in order to prevent any sort of burnout that can easily occur when working on a project of this magnitude.

I don't think you should drop the project, but I do think you should set realistic goals for yourself.

You could try tinkering with existing free server architecture (e.g. Ultima Online can be legally downloaded for free at different times, depending on EA promotions, and there are free server software you can use -- POL, RunUO, Sphere -- to try your hand at learning what makes up a server). In fact, this is something you should do, in order to gain some experience from an admin point of view.

If you plan on hosting a few hundred players per server, you'll need a robust database system which has loads of community support. MySQL is arguably the best free option you have, so I would look into learning some SQL basics, try setting up a server yourself, and tinker with it.

For an image loader, I recommend SDL_Image. I've had good success with it, and compressed PNG images offer decent compression to save on disk usage. SDL_Image requires LibPNB, which requires zlib, so there you go. :)

For account management, you might want to look into setting up a phpBB forum of your own, creating a few accounts, and learning how the structure of the account maintenance works. Across all systems (whether SQL, PHP, Windows, Mac, or whatever) there's a common architecture for account management, so if you learn the theory, implementing your own system will not be difficult (theoretically!)

Good luck!

I agree with the above posts. Its just a long process, but if you love doing it, you totally should do it.

Sorry for not responding to all the replies, but I wrote a HUGE post with answers to all of them, but Firefox 1.5 keeps hanging and crashing for some reason, makes me really sad.

Thanks for all of your support though! I appreciate it.

Quote:

Original post by MatrixCubed It's not impossible to do yourself, but it will take a LONG time. If you take a look at similar functions of unrelated projects, then you can kinda break it down into small sections, and slowly evolve your engine to what you want it to be. The important part here is to plan before you take steps, in order to prevent any sort of burnout that can easily occur when working on a project of this magnitude. I don't think you should drop the project, but I do think you should set realistic goals for yourself. You could try tinkering with existing free server architecture (e.g. Ultima Online can be legally downloaded for free at different times, depending on EA promotions, and there are free server software you can use -- POL, RunUO, Sphere -- to try your hand at learning what makes up a server). In fact, this is something you should do, in order to gain some experience from an admin point of view. If you plan on hosting a few hundred players per server, you'll need a robust database system which has loads of community support. MySQL is arguably the best free option you have, so I would look into learning some SQL basics, try setting up a server yourself, and tinker with it. For an image loader, I recommend SDL_Image. I've had good success with it, and compressed PNG images offer decent compression to save on disk usage. SDL_Image requires LibPNB, which requires zlib, so there you go. :) For account management, you might want to look into setting up a phpBB forum of your own, creating a few accounts, and learning how the structure of the account maintenance works. Across all systems (whether SQL, PHP, Windows, Mac, or whatever) there's a common architecture for account management, so if you learn the theory, implementing your own system will not be difficult (theoretically!) Good luck!

Thanks for your reply :).

I have been an administrator for a smaller-scale MMORPG before, so I have some experience in administrating the servers. I've also been a part of writing the open-source server I wrote about in the first post, so I have some knowledge of what goes on in an MMORPG server.

I have set up numerous MySQL servers for various webservers and played around with it some. So that shouldn't be a too big problem.

About using SDL_image, I don't really want to use it, since I have to use SDL to use it, and SDL has sooo many features I don't need. I'm planning on using FreeImage or DevIL instead, is it a good idea?

For account management I'm planning on using a modifed PunBB forum for logging in etc. Is it a bad idea?


Once again, thank you all for your replies. It really helped me a lot. :)

it is impossible if you are to work on it alone