Hi, I'm thinking about creating a flashgame of an old game. When does a copyright expire?

Not for a long, long time I'm afraid..

But, don't let that deter you from making a flash game based off an old game. Change a few elements, call it something else and have fun. Derivative works are also copywrite-able.

In the US, it is the lifetime of the author + 70 years.

Actualy, to clarify from Maega...

It would 70 years after the owner of the copyright would it not? Which in the case of most games the copyright is owned by a company not an individual. The copyrights are also regularly passed over in the case of aquisitions, meaning its possiable that the owner is not even dead (ie: you will not be able to recreate atari games exactly for over 70 years, even given the games were created further back then that).

Another example would be the works of tolkine, who passed the copyright of his pieces on to his family in the name of a nonprofit organization i belive. By doing that his family can maintain the copyright indefinitly.

Quote: Original post by PaulCesar
Actualy, to clarify from Maega...

It would 70 years after the owner of the copyright would it not? Which in the case of most games the copyright is owned by a company not an individual. The copyrights are also regularly passed over in the case of aquisitions, meaning its possiable that the owner is not even dead (ie: you will not be able to recreate atari games exactly for over 70 years, even given the games were created further back then that).

Another example would be the works of tolkine, who passed the copyright of his pieces on to his family in the name of a nonprofit organization i belive. By doing that his family can maintain the copyright indefinitly.

Well, copyright is renewable as long as someone is there to renew the copyright in your name (in Tolkien's case, his estate retained the copyright and renewed it, so they'll have it for as long as some part of their family is alive to renew.)

On the other hand, Corporations can have copyrights, but they only retain the copyright; officially, the clock doesn't start ticking on the 70 years part of the copyright until all of the original authors of the *item* pass away, and when they pass away the ownership is then passed on to the Corporation. (Technically, if you are fired from a job where you wrote code, depending on the contract you signed, you might still own the code. Just don't expect this from Microsoft. Most contracts have a clause that say that works done for the company have the copyrights transferred to the company. This is true of the Music industry and the Movie industry as well, sadly. ;))

But, this is all just pedantic gibber-jabber. The important part is that derivative works are copyrightable. This means you can xerox the idea of someone elses game and make your own without fear of litigation (after all, ideas are *not* copyrightable, implementations are). This doesn't mean people will like you, but it's not illegal.

Quote: Original post by ciroknight
The important part is that derivative works are copyrightable. This means you can xerox the idea of someone elses game and make your own without fear of litigation (after all, ideas are *not* copyrightable, implementations are). This doesn't mean people will like you, but it's not illegal.

Afraid this is either incorrect or rather poorly worded.
To xerox generally means to make an exact copy. If you make an exact copy that is a breach of copyright and the copyright owner can take legal action. What you can do is make a game that is inspired by an idea. You can make a game with a young guy running around ancient ruins collecting stuff. You can't make a game with a woman with a pony tail, short shorts, twin pistols and big bristols.

Also your use of the term derivative work is misleading. "Derivative work" has a specific meaning in relation to copyright. A derivative work is one derived from a copyright work (not one inspired by a copyright work). If you made your own game with Lara Croft in, even if the graphics and level designs were your original creation, it would legally be a derivative work and would be copyright of Eidos.

Quote: Original post by ciroknight
Well, copyright is renewable as long as someone is there to renew the copyright in your name (in Tolkien's case, his estate retained the copyright and renewed it, so they'll have it for as long as some part of their family is alive to renew.)

I don't think that is true. Tolkien only died in 1973, so the statutory period of protection is still in place, merely passed to his estate. When the time expires, so will the protection, regardless of who is around to register it. Renewal of copyright doesn't really exist: that's why Disney lobbied to change the copyright law, knowing that it's not as simple as merely renewing their claim to Mickey Mouse.

Quote: On the other hand, Corporations can have copyrights, but they only retain the copyright; officially, the clock doesn't start ticking on the 70 years part of the copyright until all of the original authors of the *item* pass away, and when they pass away the ownership is then passed on to the Corporation.

This or may or may not be true: since 70 years haven't elapsed since US law was changed to reflect international conventions on copyright, this can't have been tested in any court.

I'm thinking about the same, recreate one of my favourite oldtime wing95 games in java just because it doesn't run on windows xp. Problem is the publisher does not exist anymore (been bought up by other company and even they have been bought up or gone broke). I tried to contact them several times if I could just use the old artwork and graphics but no response. If I develop the game and just publish as freeware I don't think they would have a problem with it but I don't want to go into all sorts of legal battles. For me, just the experience of building a game is a reward on its own.

But is it thst easy to avoid copyright infringement, just changing the sprites and artwork, calling it another name, and proceed?

Exactly were is it stated what aspects/elements of a game is copyrighted?
The idea of Tetris and the name is copyrighted, if you make a tetris clone and ask money for it you'll be sued. But the game idea of 'Scramble' is not; it is cloned since the 80ies numerous times and this game idea is 'in the public domain'.

Quote: Original post by Marmin
But is it thst easy to avoid copyright infringement, just changing the sprites and artwork, calling it another name, and proceed? \

For me that would be the most expensive part. I'd rather use the original graphics (which for a java game that I intend to create are still nice). I don't even have the skills to create the graphics. I'm just porting the original game to a new platform. From a publishers perspective it should not be a big deal as the original game is not sold anywhere now and they don't make any money out of it. Nor do I when I put the game online as freeware.