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Original post by xycos I've been doing a little musing on difficuty and wondering what the general consensus is on this. So please take my little survey-thingy, or just say whatever you think about difficulty (specifically in a 3rd person action-adventure game).

don't play that many action-adventure games, I like pure-action games better :)

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1. What difficulty level do you usually play at (Very Easy, Easy, Medium, Hard, very Hard).

custom
easy
or the dificuly-level where I get the hardest(ie ai-hardest, not hp-hardest) enemies but not at the expenc(?) of game-play issues(like less hp and/or few saves) and with cheats.

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2. Would you rather a game be too easy or too hard?

too easy.

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3. In an action-adventure game, would you be more frustrated by too-difficult puzzles or too-difficult combat?

since I'm not a puzzle guy I would go w/ the combat one. I can cheat my way behind that one ;)
Please note that too easy puzzles might iritate hardecore-players since they merely take time.

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4. What's the hardest game you've FINISHED? The easiest?

hardest? uuuhhm blood 2:the chosen? IIRC I cheated my way though the final boss and simply stood there for a about 30 sec and blasted the boss with the most advanced weapon. pretty boring.
easiest? fear/hl2 altough I finsihed both on easy/very easy.

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5. Have you ever stopped playing a game soley because it was too difficult or too easy, and, if so, which one(s)?

can't remember. stop played "doom3", "pop: sands of time" and "far cry" because they all were too boring (IMHO).

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6. Which of the following are good ways to make a game more difficult?: - Decreased player stats (damage, etc.). - Decreased player health. - Increased enemy stats (damage, etc.). - Increased enemy HP (so enemies take longer to kill).

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- Fewer save points/saves per level.

cheap and boring.

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- More enemies. - Better enemy AI.

good

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- Fewer powerups.

might work. my brother played hl2 at the hardest level and he said that the fights became more fun since partially because you had to flee for a while since you hadn't ammo for the rocket-launcher to take down the "flying guns".

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- Other.

According to a review "perfect dark zero" changed the missions according to the difficuly level. At a harder level it became more to do, and at a easier level it became... easier :)

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- A combonation of the above.

works. But I like the custom version. Allow the user to choose his/her own difficulty level.

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7. What should be the difficulty ramp of a game (i.e. how much harder should the final level be than the first non-tutorial level)?

As previously mentioned:

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Original post by Telastyn As close to the learning curve of the game as you can get.

One thing that came to my mind while reading this was a boss in one of my friends games. (this isn't going to specifically answer any questions, but just a little something to think about)

The boss was some giant blob thing. You'd be attacking it and after a while, it died! Naturally, you where happy and proud of yourself. That is, until a couple seconds later when it respawned. At that point you go "What the &%$#!?? I just killed that!" After a little bit longer and a health potion or two quafed, you've killed it again. But... it comes back again! Repeat for about 5 more times.

There was no indication that this was ever going to end. The entire boss fight took roughly 45 minutes. There was no chance to save the game, or even to leave it and come back later, apart from letting it run all the time.

That is a *very* bad way to 'make a game harder.' It turned out that the boss was actually extremely easy, but it took forever and one bad move could easily have cost the game. Appearantly the developers of this game thought "Well, if it takes them a long time to kill the boss, it must be hard!" Wrong. Time does not equate to dificulty, but often to boredom.

Just something to think about.

Oh, and the hardest game I've ever finished would be Riven. The easiest, Lego Star Wars.

I basically can't be bothered to replay a level over and over, if it's part of a story. Seeing the same mission briefing movie over and over...
That's probably why I prefer games with less of a win/lose mentality and more of a 'just play' mentality - like Quake3, or skirmish mode in an RTS, or Pro Evolution Soccer.

I'd rather play a game on easy and mess around doing stuff that's not vital to the missions - I like to be able to deliberately get into a hard situation but in-between know I can safely roam around without risking sudden death.

1. I go with the default, I tend to figure its more balanced.
2. Too hard I suppose.
3. Too difficult combat. Keeps forcing you to reload.
4. Hardest I would say is Farcry, specifically the wrecked tanker where you climb the ladder onto the deck. That was annoyingly hard, you climb out into the middle of the deck and are attack on four sides almost immediately. Easiest I'd say was probably loom.
5. No, I always turn on god mode if it gets to that point.
6. Before I suggest good ways, I'll first point out bad ones. Infinitely spawning monsters is very bad unless you can explain it well. Games like Project IGI have places where enemies would respawn after you'd cleaned out an area. It made the games frustrating to play in many places. Like in IGI where they would respawn in little barracks. In the end I had to mine the barracks most of the time on the harder difficulties. Good ways of making the game harder I think would be having more enemies, faster/more accurate enemies up to a point, fewer saves. I don't think crippling the player is a good way to make the game harder. Its not making the game harder so much as making the player worse.
7. I'd quite like a dynamic difficulty. Maybe if you dynamically adjust the game variables to try and keep the players health between 20% and 80% you make the player feel they are getting a good challenge without needing to worry so much about balance.

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1. What difficulty level do you usually play at (Very Easy, Easy, Medium, Hard, very Hard).

I like to play through a game at the easiest level (unless it is really easy), then when I have completed it I raise the difficulty, normally so that my first game will be at the easiest level, the next will be at medium and the last at the hardest. If there is something between (very) easy and medium I normally don't bother completing it.

Some games I complete two times on the hardest difficulty (you discover lots of new stuff the second time, especially when observing the enemies AI).

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2. Would you rather a game be too easy or too hard?

I would say rather too easy because if I can't get started with a game I often dont want to continue. I dont think a game should be any of these, but rather have different difficulties.

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3. In an action-adventure game, would you be more frustrated by too-difficult puzzles or too-difficult combat?

No, I think these aren't much of a problem, in a RTS some very difficult level can be very frustrating.

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4. What's the hardest game you've FINISHED? The easiest?

The hardest: Black & White
I dont remember the easiest.

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5. Have you ever stopped playing a game soley because it was too difficult or too easy, and, if so, which one(s)?

Around a year ago I bought a game call Obscure (it apparently used RenderWare, so wanted to see if it looked like the GTA games). Early in the game I got stuck for many hours, and the hours of preceding gameplay weren't anything special so I didn't continue. Also the first Black & White game I stopped playing because I couldn't finish a level (I didn't understood English at that time, so it was pretty hard, also I was not very old), I picked it up later and completed it.

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6. Which of the following are good ways to make a game more difficult?:

I think the best method would be better enemy AI, but this can be difficult to do, especially considering players have different playing styles and therefore some AIs might be harder for one player than another.

- Fewer save points/saves per level.
I DONT like this idea, I hate when you have to beat the same part of the game again over and over just to get to a place 5 minuttes later which is the only difficult thing.

- Fewer powerups.
I dont like this either, powerups are good for experienced players (players playing on the hardest difficulity) while beginners will often not use the powerups. I see no reason to remove powerups they add alot to the gameplay.

All the ones I haven't commented on I really like, you often have to change the way you play when your/the opponent's health (or other stats) is increased/decreased. In easy you can often just run directly at the enemy with your machinegun (assuming action game, in newer time), while on hard you have to use all weapons and lots of smart tactics.

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7. What should be the difficulty ramp of a game (i.e. how much harder should the final level be than the first non-tutorial level)?

I think the first couple of levels should also be an indirect tutorial, doing stuff like giving you a gun against one enemy at a time and healing before fighting, or requiring you to use the grenades.

The final level should in some way be different than all other levels, its gameplay should be new to the player, but the player should be able to use skills developed throughout the game. I also think that the final level should be a test, testing that the player fully master all abilities thought through the game.

I think after playing for around 15 minutes non-tutorial, the "real" levels should begin, here each level should be slightly harder than the previous, so the difficulty of the final levels would depend on the number of levels in the game and the amount you choose to raise difficulty.

1. What difficulty level do you usually play at (Very Easy, Easy, Medium, Hard, very Hard).

Depends on the game type, and what the difficulty settings mean. If the difficulty change is just "you have less health on harder modes" I will play on Easy, because there is fundamentally no difference to the game experience other than an arbitrary "number of hits until dead". But if the AI gets better (not cheating, just smarter) and the actual sense of suspense is increased, I will play on the harder modes. Some games, like RTS games, though, I play on easy until I learn the rules and then slowly start to increase it.

2. Would you rather a game be too easy or too hard?

Just right. Is that too much to ask?

3. In an action-adventure game, would you be more frustrated by too-difficult puzzles or too-difficult combat?

Too difficult puzzles. You don't need a walkthrough for combat. But see #2. Also, consider throwing the word "puzzle" out of your action-adventure vocabulary. See Deus Ex, a game with no puzzles, only multi-solution problems that encourage you to think but don't force you to think like the designer.

4. What's the hardest game you've FINISHED? The easiest?

Ikaruga. On easy. Three continues.

5. Have you ever stopped playing a game soley because it was too difficult or too easy, and, if so, which one(s)?

Yes, but usually it's because the difficulty is frustrating instead of fun. Devil May Cry was a wonderful example of difficulty by frustration (I quit at the magma spider because the camera wouldn't show the damn boss on the screen).

6. Which of the following are good ways to make a game more difficult?:

- Decreased player stats (damage, etc.).

No. It's a hack.

- Decreased player health.

Hack.

- Increased enemy stats (damage, etc.).

Usually a hack, but in some circumstances it can be ok.

- Increased enemy HP (so enemies take longer to kill).

Really bad hack, because the weapons can't then be balanced to the difficulty of the enemies. I have this enemy that I want you to be able to mow down in one hit with a shotgun blast to the head, so that I can design levels where they swarm you as you struggle to shoot them down. Now they take two hits and those levels have to be scaled back to make them possible on hard. Which makes them suck on easy. Can't we just have one, perfect, difficulty level?

(Obviously that's a loaded question, because most designers would say "perfect is different to different people". I disagree: perfect means that good players are challenged and novices are challenged to a lesser degree. This just means the game has to support multiple play styles and paths through the game, and the hardcore players should have choices that allow for super-difficult solutions that give them extra rewards while the novices should have easier solutions with lesser rewards.)

- More enemies.

Sure, why not.

- Better enemy AI.

Fine and dandy, I guess.

- Fewer powerups.

This is a tough one, because it depends on what the powerups are, and what your game is. In Doom you need X ammo to kill the enemies to get through the level. Now on hard you have less ammo, meaning the level is that much harder. Then the enemies take more damage to kill, and you've killed the balance of your level. Powerup placement should be balance to be "just right". This is very hard when you have multiple difficulty levels (though each stage theoretically could be re-balanced at each level, but that almost never happens because it's N times the work).

- Fewer save points/saves per level.

No. Never. Ever.

- Other.

Playtest until it is just right.

7. What should be the difficulty ramp of a game (i.e. how much harder should the final level be than the first non-tutorial level)?

It should be just right.

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Original post by xycos

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1. What difficulty level do you usually play at (Very Easy, Easy, Medium, Hard, very Hard).

Depends on the game, but usually easy - medium

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2. Would you rather a game be too easy or too hard?

Neither, there should be a difficultly setting that reasonably well suits

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3. In an action-adventure game, would you be more frustrated by too-difficult puzzles or too-difficult combat?

Too-difficult puzzles

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4. What's the hardest game you've FINISHED? The easiest?

Don't remember

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5. Have you ever stopped playing a game soley because it was too difficult or too easy, and, if so, which one(s)?

Yes, Heist.
Other than that, no I just end up cheating

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6. Which of the following are good ways to make a game more difficult?: - Decreased player stats (damage, etc.). - Decreased player health. - Increased enemy stats (damage, etc.). - Increased enemy HP (so enemies take longer to kill). - More enemies. - Better enemy AI. - Fewer powerups. - Fewer save points/saves per level. - Other. - A combonation of the above.

A well done combination of the above

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7. What should be the difficulty ramp of a game (i.e. how much harder should the final level be than the first non-tutorial level)?

It should be that the difficultly goes up slightly more than the strength of my character and/or a resonable expectation of the increase in my playing ability

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Persoanlly I think the easiest level should be pretty easy so that people can see your story etc. without having to constantly cheat or repeat parts. The hardest level should be such that it presents a challenge to people who play this game as a large portion of their life.

But please, Please, PLEASE try as much as possible to avoid having the computer blatantly cheating.

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1. What difficulty level do you usually play at (Very Easy, Easy, Medium, Hard, very Hard).

Medium-Hard.

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2. Would you rather a game be too easy or too hard?

Too Hard.

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3. In an action-adventure game, would you be more frustrated by too-difficult puzzles or too-difficult combat?

Combat.

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4. What's the hardest game you've FINISHED? The easiest?

Not Third Person Action but: Mario Is Missing & The lost levels (version with saving)

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5. Have you ever stopped playing a game soley because it was too difficult or too easy, and, if so, which one(s)?

I still need to beat rayman, and NetHack, and G-Darius.

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6. The following are good ways to make a game more difficult?:

- More enemies.
- Better enemy AI.
- Fewer powerups.
- Fewer save points/saves per level. (depending on how you implement it, never make the player keep playing, nethack had a good system so did tomb raider 3)
- Other. Interesting power downs would be pretty neat. Backwards controls and stuff. Selectable Difficulty levels are good also.
- A combonation of the above.

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7. What should be the difficulty ramp of a game (i.e. how much harder should the final level be than the first non-tutorial level)?

It should depend on how well the player does (unless your aiming fo some competitive aspect like time-trial / highscore)

EDIT: Messed up Quotes

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1. What difficulty level do you usually play at (Very Easy, Easy, Medium, Hard, very Hard).

Depends on the game, Doom 1 & 2 for example i like playing on the Hard setting, though the very hard setting is just to strenuous (enemies respawn after 80 seconds), and i don't like having my nerves frayed that much over a game anymore.

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2. Would you rather a game be too easy or too hard?

I'd say i enjoy being bored as much as i enjoy being frustrated, so a healthy medium is good.

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3. In an action-adventure game, would you be more frustrated by too-difficult puzzles or too-difficult combat?

Puzzles, i have wracked my brain on some really messed up puzzles before. Martian Gothic for example, there is a grate you eventually get to after plowing through a whack of zombies. Now i whip out my trusty Screwdriver to take out the screws and open it, but it won't let me. No, i have to use the Electric screwdriver, which must have some amazing mystical powers that the regular screwdriver doesn't have. :p

I don't mind combat so long as the controls are responsive, though again i'd perfer a healthy medium over one of two extreme's.

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4. What's the hardest game you've FINISHED? The easiest?

The hardest? Hmm... I think the hardest would have been Alien Vrs Predator on the hardest setting, without the quicksave patch. The easiest? Not really sure, so many could qualify.

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5. Have you ever stopped playing a game soley because it was too difficult or too easy, and, if so, which one(s)?

I think its a matter of interest, rather than difficulty. If i enjoy the game i'll play it regardless, if there's little interest to begin with i won't really bother to finish it.

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6. Which of the following are good ways to make a game more difficult?: - Decreased player stats (damage, etc.). - Decreased player health. - Increased enemy stats (damage, etc.). - Increased enemy HP (so enemies take longer to kill).

The first 4 are redundant, since they effectively do the same things, making enemies harder to kill and players easier to be killed. I'm more in favor of making the enemies more difficult to kill, but not neccessarily by increasing health. For example, my favorite difficulty was on Duke Nukem 3D, on the hardest setting the enemies would respawn after 80 seconds unless the player destroyed the bodies (pipe-bombs, freeze-ray, shrink-ray, etc), and you wouldn't always have them available, and when you did it was prudent to group the enemies when you killed them to get the most bang for your buck. Great fun.

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- More enemies. - Better enemy AI. - Fewer powerups.

All great, i love mowing through armies of guys deftly with only a shotgun, dodging their rounds. :D

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7. What should be the difficulty ramp of a game (i.e. how much harder should the final level be than the first non-tutorial level)?

As others have said, a gradual progression is a good thing. It gives the player the opportunity to "warm up" in the beginning before getting down to serious fighting later on.

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- Fewer save points/saves per level.

I think saving should be rather consistent no matter the difficulty, not all players have the same amount of time or patience available. Though if you wanted a player to not abuse Quicksaving, you could only allow him to Quit & Save, and reload his progress automatically when he reloads the game.

Thanks all.

Yeah, I would never do some kind of save point thing where the person would have to replay prts if they just had to leave; I'd at least implement a save & quit. I just put that last option there to mean that players couldn't save anywhere.