I''ve asked about this a bit before, but this is a refinement... The Game: A 3D isometric SF RPG where the player adventures in space w/ a starship. The Problem: Looking for a simple way to handle skills & advancement The Details: I''m looking for an easy way to handle hero character skills, general crew skills, hiring and advancement. I''m undecided on whether or not to go with experience points, or to just use money to improve skills. Feedback much appreciated. To simplify, I think the player should have a general number that represents crew. This is a base skill in all the important skill categories. Because the crew are generally competent, this is capped at a low level. Hero characters (senior staff) can improve these skills for a price. Here''s a breakdown: Skills Each hero character can have multiple skills. The player''s skills (as Captain) average the hero character''s skill. (To represent incompetent, know nothing captains?) Navigation - Accurate coordinates for travel in hyperspace and in system. The less skilled, the larger the discrepancy between your true position and displayed position. Tactical - Combat is a bit arcade like, so you''re either hit or not. Tactical modifies amount of damage that gets applied to each hit (so that it''s part player skill, part crew skill) and amount of damage taken from each hit. Science - Determines the accuracy and detail of information that comes from scans. The higher it is, the more likely the player is to see things as they are. Also determines the chance to Deep Scan (see into) a ship''s interior. Communications - Determines how garbled and accurate communication is with an alien / different culture. Higher skill increases the chance of a favorable response, and is more likely to let the player pass themselves off as another ship during stealth operations. Engineering - Determines fuel efficiency and rate of damage repair. Medical - Determines healing rate of crew after combat. Trade (maybe) - Greater skill results in more favorable prices and reveals the locations of trade routes on the map. Also increases chance to make extra-legal trade contacts. ... that''s mostly what I have (coherent, anyway) right now. I''d like to make the hero characters special so that you want to search the cosmos for them, and decide whether or not their skills are worth their salary. I''m also looking for ways to make them more unique. -------------------- Just waiting for the mothership...

Aaaaah, yet another interesting topic by Wavinator

I have a suggestion that I havent done yet : did you consider not using stats in a systematic way ?
What you could do is have generic stats for your characters, depending on the race for instance, and *some* people would have *special* abilities, that could/would be quantified (using qualificatives for the display).

For instance, a human captain is a generic human pilot, with a Leadership skill (he better have that ...) and maybe some other special skills to personalize them. The fact that he is a generic human pilot *implies* other skills, but you dont actually say they are there unless they are needed. Kirk can fight, but he is not exceptional at it, just your generic guy who has got some military training.
A generic vulcan has got some good intelligence and logic skills, but since they are normal for their race, you dont really need to say it, do you ?
Your generic security guard has skills in weapons.
Your generic technician has technician skills ... but Scotty, or the engineer in DS9 are exceptionally skilled engineers, in which case you would say it.

The game I thin about when saying all that is Games Workshop''s Epic 40k. It''s a large scale version of Warhammer 40K. In Warhammer 40K, each unit has something like 10 stats, equipment, special skills, etc (very much like a basic roleplaying).
In Epic 40k, all those are useless, so they dont exist. You just notify of exceptional skills or abilities.
The tactical marines are normal marine troopers. The assault marines have Jumpacks, but other than that, nothing else (their guns change, that''s it), so all that is notified is their Jumppack ability. The Commander unit have a Leader attribute to indicate that they have special abilities (no moral tests, can always charge and fire). etc

Does that make sense ?

youpla :-P

Skills are modified by experience. They have a base value, and the more they are utilised, the more they are refined.

Also, instead of linear increasing, try a logarithmic scale. Once you get the basic idea of a skill you usually learn faster, not at the same slow pace.

Make stats mutually exclusive. No character can have all the stats, or even most of them.

Consider having your crew lose stats if they have to change positions. Ie if an engineer has to replace a science officer, their engineering skills fade.



"NPCs will be inherited from the basic Entity class. They will be fully independent, and carry out their own lives oblivious to the world around them ... that is, until you set them on fire ..."
"When you are willing to do that which others are ashamed to do, therein lies an advantage."

For advancing skills I once came up with an idea that had the character need to spend so much time studying or in training to advance to the next level. Training would take like x days to complete if you had a teacher, more otherwise and as levels increased it took more time to train untill a certain level where advancement would always take a year or so. Part of it was a thing where a character with a skill could train people with a lesser level at that skill. The time it took depended on the skill levels and the number of people. Never got the chance to test it so I have no idea how well it would work.

Hey morfe, where did you get the quote:
"NPCs will be inherited from the basic Entity class. They will be fully independent, and carry out their own lives oblivious to the world around them ... that is, until you set them on fire ..." ?

I love it =D

-Mumboi

I used to play a game called Starflight that sounds like it had a similar set up to yours.

There were 4 or 5 races and just about the same skill sets you mentioned.

Each race started with a base amount in each skill that varied from race to race:
One race might start out better in Medical and Communicaion but suck in Navigation or combat.

You collected funds during the game buy selling salvage, mined minerals and find G Class planets.

Then you could spend the funds training your crew in whatever skills you wanted to. It was so much money for each skill increase and it the amount required to go up another level increased each time.

Actually I was just looking for a reason to bring up Starflight cause the game rocked!

quote: Original post by ahw

Aaaaah, yet another interesting topic by Wavinator

Hah! And another interesting reply from ahw!!!

quote:
For instance, a human captain is a generic human pilot, with a Leadership skill (he better have that ...) and maybe some other special skills to personalize them. The fact that he is a generic human pilot *implies* other skills, but you dont actually say they are there unless they are needed. Kirk can fight, but he is not exceptional at it, just your generic guy who has got some military training.

Let me see if I understand: Since Kirk''s a human, he draws from the human baseline for all skills. This makes species important. But because Kirk''s talented, he shows up with certain extra abilities.

OK, if I get this then the merit is that if you''ve got multiple characters you''re dealing with their highlights, not page after page of similar stats you''re trying to tweak.

This sounds VERY promising...

quote:
The game I thin about when saying all that is Games Workshop''s Epic 40k. It''s a large scale version of Warhammer 40K. In Warhammer 40K, each unit has something like 10 stats, equipment, special skills, etc (very much like a basic roleplaying).
In Epic 40k, all those are useless, so they dont exist. You just notify of exceptional skills or abilities.
The tactical marines are normal marine troopers. The assault marines have Jumpacks, but other than that, nothing else (their guns change, that''s it), so all that is notified is their Jumppack ability. The Commander unit have a Leader attribute to indicate that they have special abilities (no moral tests, can always charge and fire). etc

Okay, now this REALLY interests me because I''m trying to explore how you could grow one detailed ship into a fleet & not be overwhelmed by detail. In W40K the scale is on the level of an individual, right? But an individual doesn''t mean much on a battlefield, hence what E40K does.

I haven''t played these, but know a little about them. Is my reasoning right? If it is, you might be able to apply the same kind of abstraction not just to individual crew, but to vessels, too...

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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote: Original post by morfe

Skills are modified by experience. They have a base value, and the more they are utilised, the more they are refined.

Also, instead of linear increasing, try a logarithmic scale. Once you get the basic idea of a skill you usually learn faster, not at the same slow pace.

Make stats mutually exclusive. No character can have all the stats, or even most of them.

Consider having your crew lose stats if they have to change positions. Ie if an engineer has to replace a science officer, their engineering skills fade.

As usual, good suggestions morfe! I especially like making the stats exclusive so that individuals are more valuable. I was actually thinking that a ship might actually have 6 or 7 stats (like above) and individuals might only have 1 or 2 (or 3 if their really good).

Combined with ahw''s suggestion, this could work. If a skilled officer died then rather an you simply being hosed, you''d be able to rely on the species base skills.





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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote: Original post by kseh

For advancing skills I once came up with an idea that had the character need to spend so much time studying or in training to advance to the next level. Training would take like x days to complete if you had a teacher, more otherwise and as levels increased it took more time to train untill a certain level where advancement would always take a year or so. Part of it was a thing where a character with a skill could train people with a lesser level at that skill. The time it took depended on the skill levels and the number of people.

Hey kseh you just gave me a great idea:

As yet another way of making individual places and people more important, teaching ability could be a factor. It could be the difference between training at your local JC and attending Oxford or M.I.T.

Additionally, a virtual teacher could be software you could purchase or a ship module you buy.

I''m not sure about making it take a REALLY long time to train, but spending a few days at a starbase to get Advanced Tactical training might add flavor to the game...


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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster

I used to play a game called Starflight that sounds like it had a similar set up to yours.

Right now Starflight is my bible, AP!

quote:
There were 4 or 5 races and just about the same skill sets you mentioned.

Each race started with a base amount in each skill that varied from race to race:
One race might start out better in Medical and Communicaion but suck in Navigation or combat.

I''m borrowing this, but the difference is that the ships you fly have larger crews. But your five guys in Starflight are like my concept of a "Senior Staff." They''re the bosses.

quote:
It was so much money for each skill increase and it the amount required to go up another level increased each time.

Right, this was determined by their Learning Rate. So every time you trained them, you''d pay for a lesson and they''d advance by this much.

If I use this, then training is just a matter of spending money. I was first going to go with this, but I''m undecided on whether or not there should be time or actual experience involved????

quote:
Actually I was just looking for a reason to bring up Starflight cause the game rocked!

I''ve got copies of 1 & 2. I''m trying to capture some of the best parts, so any suggestions would be most welcome. I''ve been posting for the past couple of months w/ the title SF RPG: blah blah blah...

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Just waiting for the mothership...