I remember you recently said this:

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If you asked the average adult they would probably tell you that videogames are high-tech toys for kids. I believe that a childish game is something like colorful cute cuddly characters like Pokemon and even games like Mario and Zelda.

But previously you also said this:

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I believe that it could be so much bigger if some of the games were made for mature teenagers and adults. I am not referring to the games that are rated M. Those games are childish also. Some of them just contain a lot of animated violence.

These ideas seem to conflict. On one hand I agree that violence for the sake of violence is childish, but then you also say that superficial qualities like the appearance of characters determines what age group will play the game. I start to sense insecurity when people won't play a game simply because it contains cute characters, regardless of the gameplay.

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I don't know about anyone else, but I would much rather experience war (fun war) through a game such as Call of Duty 2 (which is pretty realistic, yet very fun, and sometimes difficult) than going to iraq with say, a 25% of ending my life.

I think war games should be scary. Experiencing fear can be fun to some people. (Bungee jumping, skydiving, ect.)

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Original post by vr_man Quote: I don't know about anyone else, but I would much rather experience war (fun war) through a game such as Call of Duty 2 (which is pretty realistic, yet very fun, and sometimes difficult) than going to iraq with say, a 25% of ending my life. I think war games should be scary. Experiencing fear can be fun to some people. (Bungee jumping, skydiving, ect.)

I hate to tell you but those people that think bungee jumping, skydiving etc are fun probably are out doing said things and would probably never ever want to do it in a video game, some things just arent as fun in video games... you cant feel the wind rushing by your face when your sitting in front of a monitor. There is also a huge difference between a relativly safe danger rush (such as sky divinng with a parachutte) and going to war... war isnt fun... very few people would want to experience war just for the fun of it and I think that is the main point... very few, producers have to market to what would be in general fun. Sure they could make Shizer Whips and Chains super Bondage 5XxX but if its something that will only appeal to all of 10 people then the money isnt there

Also if you think theres no emotional attachment in games you need to play some RPGs ....

Final Fantasy 7 - Areis.... all I have to say

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I start to sense insecurity when people won't play a game simply because it contains cute characters, regardless of the gameplay.

I enjoyed playing games like Mario and Zelda in the past, but I still believe they are childish. How much adults do you think are playing Pokemon games on a regular basis? The appearances of characters in a game can determine which sex and age group will be interested in a game even before they play it. Most females like bright colors like pink or red. Most males like colors like black or dark bleu. Most young boys don't really care how a character in a game looks as long as they are having fun when they are playing the game. As males get older they will begin to purchase things that represents who and what they are. For example the average teenaged male or adult will be much more interested in a dark evil looking character like Spawn than a character from Pokemon. I don't know if you are a fan of Dragon Ball Z, but if you are I can give you another example. Think about the fat version of Majin Buu. Now think about Kid Buu or Cooler, or Vegeta. I can bet you that the majority of the male populations that are fans of the show do not like the fat version of Majin Buu. He looks and sounds like a cute cuddly character that a little boy or girl would want to play with.

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Original post by vr_man Quote: I start to sense insecurity when people won't play a game simply because it contains cute characters, regardless of the gameplay. I enjoyed playing games like Mario and Zelda in the past, but I still believe they are childish. How much adults do you think are playing Pokemon games on a regular basis? The appearances of characters in a game can determine which sex and age group will be interested in a game even before they play it. Most females like bright colors like pink or red. Most males like colors like black or dark bleu. Most young boys don't really care how a character in a game looks as long as they are having fun when they are playing the game. As males get older they will begin to purchase things that represents who and what they are. For example the average teenaged male or adult will be much more interested in a dark evil looking character like Spawn than a character from Pokemon. I don't know if you are a fan of Dragon Ball Z, but if you are I can give you another example. Think about the fat version of Majin Buu. Now think about Kid Buu or Cooler, or Vegeta. I can bet you that the majority of the male populations that are fans of the show do not like the fat version of Majin Buu. He looks and sounds like a cute cuddly character that a little boy or girl would want to play with.

Seriously, now you're just falling into stereotyping on a massive scale. Cute characters doesn't say anything about content, neither does bright colors. Konkers is probably a game franchise that's a good example. Outside of gaming, you have south park, which is always so deceptively childish, but are they gearing towards a kid's market? Those are just age old stereotypes that are starting to change. Female gamers are starting to walk into the arena that has been prominently male, and its been going on for a while. If I don't remember wrong, the Dead or Alive series was originally geared towards a male audience, but ended up attracting a large female following too.

Personally, it just sounds like you're locking yourself in your cage of age old stereotypes and blinding yourself to what's really out there. They say don't judge a book by its cover. Or as the taoists would say, "Don't draw boundaries for yourself when there were never any to begin with." For games, you shouldn't judge the content by its looks (usually the rating system is more accurate). So, maybe what you're looking for is out there, but you've just never noticed it. At the rate games are being released, there are tons that fall through cracks and become forgotten, like Ico, which was a really good game (was an emotional bonding experience on a totally different level).

@WeirdoFu:





Amen.

I have been working on something I call psychological theories for games. It has a lot more to do with storyline and characters. Has to do with all aspects. I too feel that emotions are not felt like the old days at least for the genre I work with(rpg). I am rather busy as hell atm working on a game design doc for new teammates, writting tutorials and getting a demo out(god help me).

I found this to be a good question I took out of context. I want to strike the player's emotions as well. What makes the average person happy or sad?

You want to make the player sad? delete all his saves :-)

Long thread. Haven't read it all yet, but gotta post.

People identified with different things 10 years ago. Personally, I think people got attached to things more because they felt as though the things they cared about would soon change dramaticly. An "apreciate what you got while you have it" sort of mentality. I think we're a little more desensitized these days.

If I had the time and money, I'd like to take a class in pop culture sometime. I think it's kinda interesting the way that the things that weigh the heviest on the general populations minds affects what is broadcast on TV and in general makes its way into other media. In the 90s the paranormal, conspiracy theories, Y2K, and the end of the world was everywhere. These days we're immersed in war and terroism. And well, when the calendar got past 2000 and the 21st century could officially be declaired, quite frankly I think a lot of us westerners lost our muse and took hold of now what was on everybody's mind. I can't speak for everbody, but I'd say I've been disillusioned. The next end of the world, according to those who believe, is scheduled for something like 20012. It doesn't pack the same punch the number 2000 did.

Just an opinion.

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I found this to be a good question I took out of context. I want to strike the player's emotions as well. What makes the average person happy or sad?

Any videogame that can give a large group of people a chemical balance will be a successful videogame. Gamers usually feel happy when they have accomplished a difficult task in a game. Achieving a person goal can cause the release of a chemical that is called serotonin. (A neuro transmitter that can make a person feel relaxed, or self-confidant) When a person is performing a difficult task in a game they could have a high levels of glucocorticoids (stress hormones) and dopamine in their bodies. (One of the chemicals that causes motivation) It is the balance of these chemicals that cause pain a pleasure that will determine if a person is happy or sad. Of course one of the most difficult things that a game developer can do is cause the release of oxytocin when a person is playing a videogame. It is the chemical that causes emotional attachments with people. Emotional attachments are formed with fictional characters when the storyline and dialog in a game or movie is excellent. Video and sound can make people feel happy or sad also. They are many books that you can read about psychology and the science of making music and movies. It will explain why specific sounds and notes make people feel relaxed, sad, or anxious.

Innovation is the most important thing in the videogame industry because it causes the release of dopamine in people. Think about all of the people that were anticipating the release of the X BOX 360. The high that some people were feeling when they were lining up in front of electronic stores is similar to the high that people feel when they are using cocaine. Did you ever hear about doctors that used PET scans to examine the brains of cocaine users and hardcore videogame players? There was no physical difference between the cocaine users and the videogame players. Designing an innovative videogame is difficult, but it is even more difficult to design a game that will give people the high of dopamine for a long period of time. When people try something new they may be amazed and excited, but it doesn't take long for the novelty effect to wear off.

The only way to maintain these high levels of dopamine in most gamers is to introduce some kind of reward system. When a gamer completes a videogame that was long and difficult they may feel proud of themselves, but the feeling of self-confidence does not last long. They are not receiving anything for their hard work and determination. If Microsoft decided to include cash rewards on X BOX live it could be very successful. It could be similar to my entertainment center ideas in my first post. People would be able to compete against each other in games of skill and win money. The only problem that I would have with this idea is security issues. I think entertainment centers would be much safer.

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You want to make the player sad? delete all his saves :-)

Removing the save option from games would be a bad idea. But reducing the number of times that a person can save or restart from a saved destination could be a good idea. A character could acquire the ability to save during the game but they would have to use their saving abilities wisely.