Quote: Original post by I_Smell_Tuna
Anon: I was referring to past posts.

I don't have a family fortune, so I'm not filthy rich, however I do have potential investors. So you can start with a little bit of something and turn it in to something huge.

You know, there's a difference between knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge is merely all that theoretical shit you've had shovelled into your brain over the years. Wisdom is what you get when you try and put that shit to some use.

I'll give you one piece of advice that damned-near every successful businessman has taken to heart: "Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst."


Some points:

1. Developing a AAA-quality title for $50K over five years isn't realistic. Not even slightly.

I know Hanna-Barbera managed to switch from $50K/5-minute short animations for MGM to $5K/episode animations like Huckleberry Hound, but that's because they found ways of drastically streamlining the animation process -- essentially reinventing it for television. The gamedev industry lacks anything like the same level of maturity: we're still making games using tools and technologies that date back to days of punched cards.

There are those who claim that the games industry is on a par with the movie industry during its silent movie era. Bullshit: we haven't even passed the zoetrope stage yet.


2. Wal*Mart's distros and their ilk will NOT buy your game.

They're geared up to deal not with individual items, but with entire _portfolios_. EA, Ubisoft, Vivendi, etc., all have a swathe of games on offer. They will pay for print spots, TV spots, trade advertising, magazine previews, front cover splashes and more. These companies even compete with mid-list software developers by producing "bargain-bin" editions of their back-catalogues. Can you seriously compete with this?

If you seriously think you can waltz up to a Wal*Mart distro and convince them to take on a few thousand units of a _single_ SKU that was developed with a budget of $10K/annum, you're in for a very nasty shock. If you weren't prepared to spend megabucks on the software, why would they believe you'll spend megabucks on the PR and marketing?


3. Optimism is stepping off the edge of a tall building in the firm belief that you can fly.

There's a damned good reason why the phrase "happy-go-lucky, seasoned veteran" is considered an oxymoron in this industry. "Veteran" and "cynical" are practically synonyms. Ultimately, you're going to be dealing with people. If you think _we're_ being hard on you, imagine how the cynical bastards at Wal*Mart are going to react to your proposition.

(dont shout at me for being off topic)
in the days before internet i used to buy games (shareware mostly so very cheap) from a mail catalog and get them by mail (regular not email [smile]). nowdays the catalog of course should be a website, but you can still send boxed copies over mail (for extra cash ofcourse). you can even gift wrap it.

seems silly to buy software online and get it in a box, but makes sense for the christmas/birthday thingy.

sooo, what im trying to say, if all goes bad and you get kicked out of wal-mart (i know you dont imagine it, but some guys here are hinting its a possibility), and if that happens and you still want the birthday/christmas market you can set an option in the webpage to get it gift wrapped and sent. If I was Timmy's father id be happy to not wait in line in a store, and if i were Timmy id be happy to get the shiny new game i always wanted.


Iftah.

Quote: Original post by I_Smell_Tuna
Retail is just about always going to be a good channel for sales. Can you imagine the day when 'Christmas Morning: Ok Timmy, go checkout your desktop, I downloaded that WWII game you've wanted'.

Hell yes.

Retail sucks as a channel for digital software. (Does the name "iTunes" mean anything to you?)

I know many people here in the UK who can't even be bothered to buy their _groceries_ from retailers, preferring to go with online merchants instead.

Never underestimate the power of Applied Laziness.

I don't plan to go to retailers with just good intentions. I know it will require large sums of money, and I'm not going to approach retailers without serious financial backing, to do otherwise would be a folley for business.

And if it does flop there is always the chance for another game, or other channels of distribution.

Digital Distro: A video game (especially an MMO) isn't nearly the size of an audio file. In a few years it will be more feasable.

Quote: Original post by Iftah
I know you dont imagine it, but some guys here are hinting its a possibility.

They're practicly screamming it. [grin]

Tuna:
Dreams and goals are good, but remember you aren't the only one with dreams, many before have tried and failed. I am not saying for you to give up, but you need to not be counting on this idea. I am all for your vision and hoping you make it, but you should heed everyone's advice. Take twenty minutes and just sit in silence thinking this over, if you are still wanting to go ahead with it try to worry about the shelves after you have a three or more year head start.

For the rest:
It is good for him to try and run himself as long as he will not be crippled by failure. If he suceeds he is happy, if he fails it was a good experience and he now knows better.

Tuna, again:
Out of curousity, what genre of online game is this? Yet another rpg (1-3 a year come out) or yet another shooter (with 3-5 coming out a year)?

Are you making your own genre and what previous proggramming experience do you have?

Remember:
From the 'Flyp-side':
"Your skin ain't the only skin, blood ain't the only blood, dreams ain't the only dreams'

You are not the sole voice of reason in the world, nor are you the only and absolute expert on marketing; heed what others tell you even if you son't think it true. Ponder their words over and over, trying to see their light on the of chance they are actaully telling the truth. A foolish man does not listen or heed the words of others saying 'I know better, I am wiser'
but a wise man knows others may be wiser and listens saying 'I may learn from him, for if he is smart I shall remember and put his words in action, but if he is foolish I what would I loose?'

Listen to the others' posts and think them over, I dare you.

Quote: Original post by I_Smell_Tuna
I don't plan to go to retailers with just good intentions. I know it will require large sums of money, and I'm not going to approach retailers without serious financial backing, to do otherwise would be a folley for business.

And if it does flop there is always the chance for another game, or other channels of distribution.

Digital Distro: A video game (especially an MMO) isn't nearly the size of an audio file. In a few years it will be more feasable.

And yet, it is quite possible to make a more than comfortable living selling games as downloads.

I've been providing front-line support for Small Rockets since 2004. Small Rockets itself has been selling games online since 2000. They tried the publishing route too, but it damned-near killed the company. (And these were _licenses_!) Small Rockets switched to a "virtual company" setup -- exactly as you are planning to do -- but I can assure you that it is by no means as simple and as painless as it is often portrayed. Be prepared for some nasty surprises.

What is, perhaps, surprising is just how often I field requests from mid-list publishers -- the kind who populate those carousels full of $9.99 CDs in retail stores -- for permission to sell our games. Now, this may come as a shock, but Small Rockets now _refuses_ all such requests: the support issues alone will wipe out pretty much any profit we might have made. I'm still dealing with support requests from customers who bought older titles on CD way back when. ESD titles have a _long_ shelf-life; we're still supporting games that were released back in 1999!

ESD is not without its obstacles, but it _is_ a much better ROI than retail. That I can assure you from *first-hand* knowledge.

Tuna, not to poo poo your dreams of being a developer and a publisher, but it just isn't good economics. In the end you would make more money working with a publisher because they deal in volumes and have relationships that create savings for them (and you) that you could never achieve with a single product (first product). They also bring along a lot of experience. This is how business works, you do your job, they do theirs, creating a mutual benefit. When microsoft manufactured the xbox, they had intel create their cpu, nvidia made the gpu, etc. They didn't try to do everything themselves, they found the most cost effective and lowest risk way to maximize their profits.

You really can't take the national retail publishing market by storm. The costs are huge and realistically, you wouldn't find suitable investers willing to risk on that type of venture. VCs are typically pretty tight with their money. They go for lowest risk with the highest return. This is the type of thing you'd only pull off if you were an ex CEO of a large publisher.

I've thought about it time and time again, my mind runs a mile a minute all day long thinking about it. The game is going to be a hybrid of RPG, FPS, and RTS. A little strange but I'm pretty sure I can pull it off.

Bobv: Please read previous posts for answers.

'Pretty Sure', if I was thinking of risking the kind of money you are talking about and investors money at that 'Pretty Sure' just wouldn't cut it :)

Good thing I have 3-5 years to make up my mind then.