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Original post by Vampus

You're probably right. In that case, yeah I agree. While I am all in favour of having the player fail, I wouldn't want to see someone wasting time AFTER already failing (possibly without knowing that he failed).

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WeirdoFu random elements on the micro level, like differences in informants, variations in target location, object placement, etc. So stuff like suspect A will actually have a choice of taking some stolen vehicle to one of a dozen different locations or the bombs can be located in a number of location combinations with varying impacts. The game tree will get huge, but you're guaranteed some interesting stuff.

Sure, you will have to be careful at what level you implement randomness. You're absolutely right it's generally much better if the greater story arch stays intact. However the more variation, the more replayability, so you will need to find a balance somehow.

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WeirdoFu installments

That idea is just plain brilliant. While I had considered moddability, I hadn't in any way thought of this. It'd be like those old detective stories that you'd get in installments in a magazine every month (or like a comic). Great idea! Furthermore, installments might be great points to allow the player to save/reload. He will, however, be stuck with the results he got up to that point, unless he replays.

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Original post by Horizon Quote: Original post by Vampus You're probably right.

He was right :)

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While I am all in favour of having the player fail

The player should be faced with challanges (sp) and sometimes fail, othwerwise they should watch a (good) movie :) However, there should be an option (IMHO) entitled baby or newbie where there is absolutely no challanges at all(in short god-mode) so such "players" also could be happy :)

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WeirdoFu I'd rather pay a dozen writers some good money to write out two or three dozen possible branches simultaneously and let the game grow that way

I had a gameidea some time ago that sounds like this one:
The game is based around chapters and are branched around a choise you make at the end of each chapter.
In the first chapter you are a kid at the school. This is basicly a few tutorial level, learning how to move, use stuff fight, drive a car etc. At the end of this chapter you choose to kick a kid, or stop the kids who are kicking him(kick them). Based on this you either ends up in a gang or in the police accademy. Fail the accademey and become a soldier, "win" the accademy and work at the agency(Fbi/cia), "win 1" the agency and become a counter terrorist agent, "win 2" the agency and work with secret stuff, yada yada yada...
In the grande finale(the end of the game) you fight a friend from school(the tutorial level) that has made the opposite choises you have made, ala Face/off...

Long post, better get back to the 4e4 coding ;)

Interesting topic, and I'm really really hoping the current '24' game coming out isn't as flat as it's sounding.

For this thread, I think each hour/segment (whatever) should have various goals that need to be accomplished based on the player's current standing in the game as well as what's in the script.

That's a little more manageable (IMHO) than spawning 10 storylines or branches for each decision. Cool? Definitely, but I wouldn't want to be the one developing it. :)

I would maybe have primary and secondary goals for the segment. Therefore if the player fails a primary goal (ie. rescue Jack's family....*again*) then you're allowed/forced to repeat the hour.

While this might sound too limiting and non-linear, you *could* always have your primary/secondary goals change depending upon your character and the goals you've succeeded/failed in the past.

ie. you can play through the game as one of x number of characters...this would allow you to experience some of the "key" moments when the action of different segments/pov's blend together, like a shootout or bomb explosion, etc.

I think there needs to be *some* rigid, scripted moments so that you get the "3-panels-of-action-happening-at-once-while-the-clock-countsdown" effect which we all love in the show.

I'd almost hate to have this one on my plate, not because of the possibilities, but BECAUSE of the possibilities!! *BG*

Yeah, I agree with the people who've said that they wouldn't want to play for a couple of hours after putting themselves in an impossible situation and not knowing it.

Horizon - I think you're dead-on about making the game along the lines of a Roguelike, where player success really means something - one of my favourite games is to play a Metal Slug with 5 credits to see how far I can get. I must have played the early levels dozens of times but it's still fun.

I really like the episodic and moddable ideas - one compromise on the saving could be that you had a checkpoint every few hours between episodes, where it would be guaranteed that you could safely continue from. This would mean that you could eventually have a game that spanned several hours without a player dying at hour 18 and losing everything.

Adding randomness would be tricky to do, but I think it would be necessary if the player repeated the same few hours several times - otherwise, what's to stop them finding out where a key suspect lives after a few hours, dying, then starting again and raiding their house straight away? So, the main story could remain intact, but terrorist safehouses could be randomly placed throughout the city.

Thanks to everyone who's posted - some great ideas here, exactly what I was looking for...

Granted, I'm skimming, but this is interesting.

Check out Indigo Prophecy, the game for the PC and Xbox that just came out. A lot of those ideas are implemented in that game, and they work rather well, although the user interface is a little wonky at times. As far as a cinematic game, it's pretty brilliant how multiple events and characters are handled, even though it's difficult to get into the mindset of almost working against yourself at every turn.

Best way to research game design is to play games! :D