This has mainly to do with RPG-type games, but the applicability is broad. Damage generally consists of three considerations: 1. The effect on your life 2. The secondary effects (slower movement due to cold, etc.) 3. The damage type for defensive purposes (i.e. fire resistance vs. physical resistance, etc). What I want to do here is examine a more realistic breakdown of damage sources. Consider this preliminary list which includes some notes on several damage types: 1. Non-Penetrative Surface Energy ---Beam, plasma, fire, alpha/beta radiation, flash burn, etc. ---Instantaneous damage due to interaction of surface material with laser, plasma, fire, etc. as well as heating damage 2. Heating Damage (Thermal effects) ---This is often secondary damage to lingering attacks such as plasma, fire, etc. that cause primary surface damage as well as heating from radiative sources. ---Heating damage is the gradual (or rapid) increase of temperature of internal volume elements. This is generally a DoT effect. ---This is different from flash effects 3. Penetrative Energy (Radiation) ---Instantaneous effects plus linger effects (i.e. long term radiative effects transfered to victim/target) ---Some of these become non-penetrative surface damaging attacks depending on the shielding involved. ---Degree of penetration with any given shielding/material configuration/etc. is critical. ---So need penetration/linger/etc. variables ---Can “radiative” surface elements be replaced by undamaged elements without shedding the damaged radioactive mass? ---Included: microwave (what is penetrative capacity of this anyway?), x-ray, gamma ray, high energy neutrons, alpha/beta radiation (both of which are primarily surface damage sources), meson decay/decay attacks generally 4. Rapid Surface Freezing damage ---This is surface damage from extreme cold sources (liquid nitrogen splash, arcane cold, etc.) 5. Cooling Damage ---Cooling damage is the gradual (or rapid) decrease of temperature of internal volume elements. This is generally a DoT effect. 6. Electrical/Magnetic ---Includes direct electrical damage, electromagnetic pulse – EMP 7. Molecular Cohesion Disruption ---i.e. disintegration, etc....although perhaps the idea of "disintegration" is just too over-the-top and unbalancing. You can have molecular cohesion disruption but don’t have its effects be quite so extreme as what you would think with a "disintegrator" ---surface vs. penetrative capacity 8. High Pressure9. Vacuum10. Concussive11. High Velocity Projectile12. Physical ---Potential subcategories (each handled differently): Slash, Blunt, Piercing, Ripping 13. Chemical ---Corrosive (various acid and base, etc.), nerve agents, respiratory, others 14. Poison (delivered via some type of penetrative attack...or surface absorb?) ---Subsume in chemical....? 15. Biological/Disease ---Including traditional disease, Nano-tech tailored, etc. 16. Phased (ethereal/spectral/etc.)17. Arcane (various?)18. Psionic/Mental(19. Temporal??) NOTE: Each damage type has its own specific characteristics beyond simply requiring different shielding. Some are more "effect" than damage. Each causes its own unique set of effects. Obviously, this many damage types has the easy potential of becoming unweildy at best and unworkable at worst. Though it does help to assign effects to damage types and defenses to damage types.

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Original post by Ned_K (19. Temporal??)

If you've never played it, check out the IF (Interactive Fiction) game called Shrapnel. "Temporal damage" is a central idea. And you'll probably "get it" a lot more if you've ever played Zork. The game also sort of pokes fun at / explores certain gaming conventions. Don't be discouraged and quit if you die, just restart - I won't say any more for fear of spoiling. You really have to play it through to the end to understand it. Don't worry though, it's short and relatively simple. If you've never played IF before: think of it as a command line adventure a la Zork but much more literary, more about story and character than inventory and puzzle solving.

If you've never played (read? interacted with?) IF before, Shrapnel is somewhat atypical but it's a very cool use of the medium. Adam Cadre, who created Shrapnel, is a well known IF writer.

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Original post by Ned_K Obviously, this many damage types has the easy potential of becoming unweildy at best and unworkable at worst. Though it does help to assign effects to damage types and defenses to damage types.

You might want to consider what effects each of these will have on the game. When I came up with my own damage types, I ended up with a huge list of ways people could get ouched. But when I went to impliment them, I realized nearly half of them would have the same effect in the game, just under a different label.

For example, if the player gets some radioactive goo on their leg, what gameplay differences are there if that causes radiation burn or plasma burn? Having a lot of damage types means armor can be more diverse, but at the same time, the player is the one held responsible for sorting the mess out and figuring out what they need.

Anyway, the real reason I posted was to give you a link to my old thread. It's pretty specific to my game, but you might find something useful.

I agree, boil them down to which ones are actually reflected in gameplay. You're making a game, not emulating the real world. :)

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Original post by Ned_K This has mainly to do with RPG-type games, but the applicability is broad. Damage generally consists of three considerations: 1. The effect on your life 2. The secondary effects (slower movement due to cold, etc.) 3. The damage type for defensive purposes (i.e. fire resistance vs. physical resistance, etc).

You make too many long-term effect and the game becomes really frustrating as the game get harder and harder to complete because of somewhat random events.

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1. Non-Penetrative Surface Energy ---Beam, plasma, fire, alpha/beta radiation, flash burn, etc. ---Instantaneous damage due to interaction of surface material with laser, plasma, fire, etc. as well as heating damage

Radiation is very much penetrative damage. It's greatest effect is on the surface, but the most dangerous portion of the effect is the damage it does on the inside.

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2. Heating Damage (Thermal effects) ---This is often secondary damage to lingering attacks such as plasma, fire, etc. that cause primary surface damage as well as heating from radiative sources. ---Heating damage is the gradual (or rapid) increase of temperature of internal volume elements. This is generally a DoT effect. ---This is different from flash effects

Somehow you've tried to make 2 sections for heat (energy) damage. Lasers don't damage their target because of some mystical 'laser energy'. They damage by an extremely focused number of photons smashing into the same spot, heating it until it burns. Same with everything in the 'non-penetrative' section. Combine the two and simply have varying levels of damage or you're wasting a lot of time.

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3. Penetrative Energy (Radiation) ---Instantaneous effects plus linger effects (i.e. long term radiative effects transfered to victim/target) ---Some of these become non-penetrative surface damaging attacks depending on the shielding involved. ---Degree of penetration with any given shielding/material configuration/etc. is critical. ---So need penetration/linger/etc. variables ---Can “radiative” surface elements be replaced by undamaged elements without shedding the damaged radioactive mass? ---Included: microwave (what is penetrative capacity of this anyway?), x-ray, gamma ray, high energy neutrons, alpha/beta radiation (both of which are primarily surface damage sources), meson decay/decay attacks generally

Radioactive damage goes straight from 'a slight danger of long-term (20 years down the road) damage' to "OMG, you're f*cked!!" really quick. Radiation as a weapon should be avoided, unless you really just enjoy killing people off in a somewhat prolonged (several days), irreversible and painful way.

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4. Rapid Surface Freezing damage ---This is surface damage from extreme cold sources (liquid nitrogen splash, arcane cold, etc.)

What in the world are you doing where there is liquid Nitrogen in the area? Working on a fusion reactor? Then again, fusion reactors don't require liquid Nitrogen, regardless of the millions of degrees in the core.

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5. Cooling Damage ---Cooling damage is the gradual (or rapid) decrease of temperature of internal volume elements. This is generally a DoT effect.

Actually cold shouldn't actually start damaging a person until it's getting really close to killing them. The first effects that cold is going to have is a reduction in agility, dexterity and stamina or whatever your equivalents are. Also remember, the more you work (physical exertion), the less effect that cold has on you. I know that when it's 20 degrees out and I go to shovel my driveway, unless it's pretty windy, after about 15 minutes, I have to take my coat off and after 30, I can usually dump my sweater (I wear thermal underwear in the winter) and still finish the job sweating and I'm a skinny guy.

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6. Electrical/Magnetic ---Includes direct electrical damage, electromagnetic pulse – EMP

Electrical: see burns, unless it's RF-based (you'll see this in TVs) or a very high current rating and a very high voltage level (lightning). RF burns tend to be really nasty, using the bones as a conduit to find a ground. High current / voltage has so many effects and so unpredictable that there's no way to tell what it will actually do. I know one guy that got struck by lightning and gained a stutter for a while (psychological) and got extreme cataracts to where they had to remove the lenses from his eyes. I know another guy who largely is unscathed by his encounter with lightning. Lightning can kill and it can just knock you out. What effects that any particular instance will have is just as unpredictable as where the lightning will hit.

EMP: There has never been any evidence that an EMP will do anything to a living creature, though it will completely disrupt and potentially damage any electrical (or electronic) systems. Also, EMPs are HUGE. One of the first EMPs proved from a nuclear blast was from a test in the South Pacific and it killed power of some items in Hawaii (in the North Pacific). A modern multi-megaton nuclear device detonated several miles over Kansas would have the devastating effect of disrupting all electrical systems in the continental united states, but would still have absolutely no effect upon the animals and humans living within it's blast radius, no matter how close to the epicenter.

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7. Molecular Cohesion Disruption ---i.e. disintegration, etc....although perhaps the idea of "disintegration" is just too over-the-top and unbalancing. You can have molecular cohesion disruption but don’t have its effects be quite so extreme as what you would think with a "disintegrator" ---surface vs. penetrative capacity

This is too unbalancing but gamma radiation is all right? At least I'll die a relatively quick and painless death with this.

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8. High Pressure

Not that big of an issue unless pressure changes quickly or the pressure gets very high. It can also be an issue if there is a high oxygen content in the air. At 14.7PSI (sea level air pressure), a 100% mixture of oxygen will kill a human by oxidizing his lungs (thanks NASA... oops). Not sure where the threshhold is, but it scales, the higher the pressure, the lower the oxygen content required to do this damage. Your body can take a lot of atmospheric pressure (water is very high pressure), your biggest problem would be a lack of ability for the blood to absorb oxygen. Compression on the other hand is something completely different. Increasing pressure usually isn't the problem, it's lowering it quickly (bends can kill).

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9. Vacuum

I don't really want to know if there has been research regarding the effects of vacuum on the human body (other than quick suffocation). However, it's largely something that's similar to lowering pressure. If you lower the pressure slowly and maintain sufficient oxygen content to allow your body to continue to absorb it, you could potentially survive very low pressure scenarios. The problem is whether the pressure (from the inside) would be enough to pop you like a baloon. Remember, vacuum doesn't suck, everything else pushes out.

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10. Concussive

Hearing loss and disorientation.

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11. High Velocity Projectile

Is it a rock, a bullet, a F-111, an arrow? Each one is a bit different.

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12. Physical ---Potential subcategories (each handled differently): Slash, Blunt, Piercing, Ripping

This has been done to death elsewhere.

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13. Chemical ---Corrosive (various acid and base, etc.), nerve agents, respiratory, others

Damages from the outside in. Much like fire, though it doesn't cook at the same time, it just dissolves what it comes into contact with.

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14. Poison (delivered via some type of penetrative attack...or surface absorb?) ---Subsume in chemical....?

Naah, they're so completely different that they're almost unrelated. This would probably be closer to Biological / Disease, since most bad effects from diseases are caused by toxins that the bacterium create.

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15. Biological/Disease ---Including traditional disease, Nano-tech tailored, etc.

Too widely varied to even think about touching it here. I'd recommend making a small number of effects and have each disease have a balance of effect, whether it be contagiousness, rapidity of onset, severity, etc... In other words, if it's very contagious, then it should have a slow onset timer and a moderate severity, but if it is very severe (kill), then it shouldn't be very contagious or set in too quickly.

[quote16. Phased (ethereal/spectral/etc.)

Good luck on making these effects up. I'd recommend nausea, confusion... not sure what else.

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17. Arcane (various?)

People are unoriginal, thus spells will be unoriginal. Make the spell have effects based upon other damaging attacks available.

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18. Psionic/Mental

Confusion, nausea, loss of control.... not sure.

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(19. Temporal??)

I can think of some really nasty effects in physics (shift someone half a second in time, but not in space and there's a chance they'll be in a solid object), but unless you plan on having magical temporal effects (aging), none of them are well balanced. Not to mention that shifting someone in time is very complex in terms of physics. I don't even know if we can even conceive, beyond just bullsh!tting around, how to do it.

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NOTE: Each damage type has its own specific characteristics beyond simply requiring different shielding. Some are more "effect" than damage. Each causes its own unique set of effects. Obviously, this many damage types has the easy potential of becoming unweildy at best and unworkable at worst. Though it does help to assign effects to damage types and defenses to damage types.

Your last paragraph sums up my overall thoughts. Most of these situations are so unlikely or economically unfeasable to produce on a small scale as to not be worth mentioning (lightning strikes, hard radiation, temporal shifting weapons). Others are too unpredictable or dangerous to the user (lightning weapons, biological weapons, hard radiation) to be worth developing in a practical sense. I'd say to start by actually finding things that you can do in the game and then worry about the effects that these things would do. You'll save yourself a lot more time that way. Also, avoid doing things on a one-off. No reason to create mechanics for lightning strikes if it's only going to be used in a room that has electricity arcing across it in one situation. Use lasers instead or combine effects from different things so that you can save your coders a bunch of work.

[Edited by - solinear on October 1, 2005 8:11:49 AM]

Things like acid would be DoT things, since they eat away at you, however unless you actually burst into flame, fire would only be an instant damage thing. Don't confuse pain with damage. For instance, if somebody cut your arm off with a sword, sure it'd hurt, but it's the blood loss that'd be doing the damage after the initial blow, not the sword.

In any case, I'd have to say that you should keep things in the normal 'instant damage' and 'damage over time' categories. This doesn't mean that you can't have sub-types, but it actually allows for more flexibility. For instance, all magic (arcane damage) could be resisted by some percentage, or a subset of magic (fire magic) could be resistend instead. If you split all of the magic up into different types of damage, and you wanted to create some form of resistance for all of them, you'd need to apply the number of magic types resistances, instead of one resistance for all of them (in code: Resistances[NUM_MAGIC_TYPES] vs Resistance).

Also, 'ripping' damage would be the same as slashing, since a sword'd slash your shirt, which is essentially equivelant to ripping it.