The way I handled HP is this one:
HP is, more or less, static. It doesn't change much, as you go along.
You DO get used to being beaten, but merely a little bit. And mainly everybody gets the same rough amount of HP.

In my system, the HP is related to one of the three main attributes: Body.
And when you are of the same race, you get the same amount of HP as everybody else, to the odd point.

Of course, you may LEARN from your numerous bashings, but what you learn is both a way to annihilate a little part of the shock you get, which in fact equates to being hard-boiled, and you may also learn how to AVOID being hit, which is also part of avoiding some of the damage. And from levelling your "hard-boiled" ability, you may also get an additional HP, or two. But that's the ultimate limit. A newbie character may very well succeed in taking out an old character, through potluck only, because they both have about the same amount of HP, just like in real life. A very battle-hardened knight may very well fall from his steed, and lay there to be slain by the next farmboy, just because he can't escape the killing blow anymore.

There is no 'right' method without knowing what kind of game your wanting to make. If its a 'sandbox' game, you'll want as non-restrictive a leveling system as possible, giving players the option to chop and change as possible.

At the other end of the scale you may want a strict leveling system if you see freedom being too difficult to deal with (this isn't a flame, it's just a fact that the less freedom the game has, the easier it is for the dev - you don't want any sudden heart attacks!). Your story, setting or themes may be too important to you to simply let players run amock.

An example of the first kind, would be Star Wars: Galaxies. Not so much since they had their 'combat upgrade', but the game is known for its 'sandbox' gameplay.

An example of the second would be WoW. You pick your race and class and your pretty stuck with it, and the game more or less stops once you reach level 60.

This brings up something else you may want to consider, what level do you want cap at, if you want to cap at all?

Fournicolas: You've been just rated up Twice for both of your posts. I highly appreciate the way you're thinking and I'm incoporating something very similar to my Game Design Document, Thanks again.

coldreboot:
I did not play SWG, And I do not know about the Combat Upgrade.
I have played a little bit of WoW (Private Server, Just to see the taste of it),
Since my computer is still not that tough to handle the memory management WoW does. But I can say it had a fairly decent Character Development, Yes, You stick to the class you choose to be, but that's why it's all about the builds, create a different character and create a different build, different strategy, different gameplay method
As for your Question, I decided to go for a Statistic Leveling method, Something like Ultima Online but different in many ways. There is a special system incorporated to allow infinite "Leveling Up", Though, not without a cost. I cannot dwell deeper into the concept as it would not be too unique anymore.
Also, As far as 'Sandbox' goes, I'm not familiar with this term, could you explain, please? The game is also based on taking MMORPG on to a new Realm of Gameplay, I do not believe in the MMORPGs that have been created thus far, I believe any game should have a story, and the way MMORPGs present it, is just not right. Also, Combat system will be much more strategical, the game will have
as much Hack and Slash as Baldurs Gate, Actually, No, Hack and Slash is not the right term for it, the right Term for it would be Strategy, Co-operative gameplay and Skill (Mostly Player skill, not Character skill) Based Combat.

Also, For those who do not know yet, Since I posted in some different topics about the same MMORPG me and a team are creating, well, not exactly creating. We're Modding a highly moddable game, We're currently at the Client/Server coding process (Starting from tommorow) and I'm still not done with my Game Design Document as when this topic started, I had to change too many things.

This is the reason why even if the game is already created, if it is moddable, there is an option to make it into a MMORPG with enough work. We also have everything neccesary for the development except a few unreleased tools that we're expecting for in the near future (Mapping tools).

I'm in an arguement with the Leader of the team, Since I'm the main designer of the team, I make sure that the concepts work and try to see if the Leader wants it the way it is. But he seems to accept the ideas if someone else agrees with me from the team, the main coder. We're working on a Trial and Error basis, if a concept does not work, we wont use it. When we are far enough into the development we will have to open up a community website questioning people about features that may be cumbersome or not to the gameplay, but so far things are under very tight control.

I have said enough for now, Look forward to more of my posts as I will keep you updated by the process of the MMORPG.

Hi XVampireX,

Sounds like an interesting caper! :-)

The term 'sandbox' means it's a game the player can just play around with a number of different things without being bound by storylines/restrictions.

The Sims, is a sandbox game. So is Black and White. It's a reference to to a child's 'sandbox' in their backyard. Where a kid can play around, the only limits being their imagination.

Hope that clears things up for you, and good luck with your game!

There's one more addition to the "you are what you eat" method. I've seen some implementations where you lose skill points from time to time, so you gradually forget unused skills. Of course this is very annoying! The best way would be to have a pool of skill points available for each character; then each skill that he trains will get points from this pool, until it's depleted. This means that the character has reached his maximum potential. From here on, the character can just switch around the same skill points -- by training a skill, another skill picked at random loses the same points. So the only way to lose a significant amount of points from any skill is by investing significantly in another skill, which makes sense. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents ;)

Based on No Leveling system (UO), Would you let any person wear any equipment without any limitations? The only "Limit" being Mastery of the certain equipment... But for example a character that just newly started could get very powerful equipment if someone would give him or if he would find, and equip it. But Efficiency of use (Wearing a very powerful equipment will for example make someone slower or very unco-ordinated, such as can barely hit the opponent) will be very bad, and will have to be increased with use.

In my opinion, It is not only a very good concept, it will also make people vary in equipment, I.E: a very powerful person may run around with dual wielding daggers that deal only 1-2 damage...! Or a very weak person may run around dealing enormous amounts of damage (1000 or more), but he would be very encumbered (can barely move, and very slow), and if the person manages to hit the monster at all (Hit/Miss rate). So people would vary in equipment and play styles all the time.

It would be very fun to see this work out.

What do you think about this concept?

Quote:

Original post by XVampireX Hi everyone. I would like to get your opinion on what is the best method of leveling Statistics (Strength/Agility/Dexterity/Intelligence/etc...) for an MMORPG. What would give the best results as far as Balance goes and what players would like more? For example, there are 2 kinds of leveling statistics right now: 1) Regular, gain level, gain stat points, allocate them to anywhere you want. Thi method ensures that the player has the maximum flexibility to enhance his character, and whatever the player chooses would be in a way helpful for his playstyle. 2) The "You are what you eat" method, this is a method which makes it so that players will be able to level their statistics based on what they do, if they do melee, they gain points in strength, if they do magic, they gain points in intelligence/magic/etc... . This method takes away the flexibility from the player in a way, but it also makes alot more sense than just leveling up and spending points in things you didnt even train in. Based on these 2, I take it that the first one could be well balanced (And the second actually, but the first is more "Traditional" and it always makes sense to have players leveling the traditional way because they are much more free to spend points in whatever they will without being too restricted to one class), but I'm still unsure, I have a twist for both of them though, so they dont end up being the same as in other games, Im just asking for your opinion based on these 2 statistic leveling methods. I'm looking forward for the replies, and Thanks for anyone who does so.

I can't pick which is the best way for statistics leveling. I would create my own system. Lets say that there are two groups of statistics, fighting skills and crafting skills. Now there's the method where you fight or craft, level up, and increase any skill you want, wether it be fighting skills or crafting skills. Then there's the method that what skill you practice levels ups (the runescape method). When I saw your post XVampireX, it made me recall another system I made up a while ago and thought was interesting. Okay, so, still sticking to the whole fighting and crafting skills idea lets say you were just fighting an orc and killed him and grew to the next level, well since you were using your fighting skills to fight the orc you can only level up any skill within that genre. Likewise, if you were to level up while crafting using your smithing skill, you could use that extra skillpoint to increase your tailoring skill, but not your axe wielding skill because your axe wielding skill is a fighting skills branch.

Fighting skills:
* Sword wielding skill
* Spear wielding skill
* Axe wielding skill

Crafting skills:
* Smithing skill
* Tailoring skill
* Potion Making skill

If anybody sees any flaws or disadvantages in this system (which I'm sure there are many), please post.

I had the same dilemma when I was designing our MMO system.

I finally settled on raising attributes with skill usage #2. It seemed more linked to the player than just letting them choose where to put them themselves.

One thing to be careful of is that someone doeant macro some skill to get his stats up...AND...that newbie characters wont be totally blown away by vets with high stats after years of playing.

Change, yes....uber pwnage, no.

I don't agree with the idea that the second is more realistic.

First of all, you don't only grow in abilites when you succeed. If anything, you grow more when you fail. Hacking on a tree with an axe will increase your strength much more than hacking on monsters or people. Swinging a sword into thin air for hours on end will promote your abilities just as much as sinking it into the flesh of an enemy. Of course games cannot allow this, as it gives players a way to do free training. So out with most of the realism so we can wall them in.

One realization that a lot of people are missing is that spending points to increase abilities could reflect training. Believe it or not, skills are normally improved much more in training than in use. In real life, the last place you're going to want to learn how to sword fight is with something trying to kill you. It's the least likely time to let your mind ponder new ideas. This isn't true with all activities, but always with fighting. People come up with new ideas and strategies outside of the conflict, then test them during the action. This 'testing' could represent your level up. You've mastered what you've trained for and so now it's time to study new ideas.

I prefer the second idea but with giving skill for each attempt.

Take the throwing skill for example. What I want to see is allow a player to throw anything as a weapon, knives, swords, axes, chairs, tables, etc. There will be an overall throwing skill level for just being able to pick something up and throw it where you want to. Then for heavier objects, strength will be a major factor and just knowing how to throw a tables wont guarntee accruacy with a knife.

From here, every time a player picks up something and throws it at something that is targetable, they will gain skill in throwing. There may even be squishy balls you can throw at someone to learn throwing skill in general. Also there will be multiple planned ways to gain these skills. You can go out and throw things at critters or you can stay in town and throw darts at the dart boards lying around.

To prevent people from gaining all out strength though macros, the skill levels will not be the primary way of determining a players strength. My considerations is a logarithmic equation for converting skill ranks into actual skill. Meaning as you gain skill ranks your skill increases slower and slower and never will actually reach 100%. Because people will get pissed as they are no longer gaining much for their skill ranks, an additional feature is every so many skill ranks the player will gain a new ability within the skill.

The additional abilitys for hurl might be, quick attack (decreased time for a single attack), multiple throw (throw multiple objects at the same time), long shot (increased accuracy for long distance), etc. With this, a player who has trained 100 hours in throwing will have nearly the same accuracy as a player who has trained 1000 hours but will not have as many abilities avaiable. So the stratigy of what ability to use will be more importiant than the players skill levels...