also a "forgotten forest" that is made of two zones. You go through one of them, and into the other, then you go through that one and into the first, a sort of loop. Scripted death alweays works though. Islands are good to create natural walls, as they do not lessen immersion at all, no matter how well it is done, the player will always poder at the poison dart hitting him when he walked there...

Okay, let's expand this concept. There are other settings which are naturally enclosed by barriers: a walled city, a dome city, arcology, a sailing or space ship on a long journey, a space or underwater station with no way to leave, a fallout shelter... In all of these cases you have a setting with nice Aristotelian unity, great for trapping a group of characters together for intense, developing character interaction, or strategically useful in that the behavior and properties of every object within the barrier can be defined, and all their possible interactions anticipated, giving the feeling of a truly interactive environment.

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Original post by Anonymous Poster can anyone think of a game that is not on an island :)

This is actually a good point. Isn't almost every game set in the metaphorical equivalent of an island? Most games constrain your path via stories, levels and missions/quests, and so naturally create enclosures.

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Original post by sunandshadow In all of these cases you have a setting with nice Aristotelian unity, great for trapping a group of characters together for intense, developing character interaction, or strategically useful in that the behavior and properties of every object within the barrier can be defined, and all their possible interactions anticipated, giving the feeling of a truly interactive environment.

I think you want more simple, elemental environments for this sort of thing. If players are trapped on a submarine, for instance, its certainly true that the scope of interactions with the environment will be limited. You won't, for instance, probably have to put in logic for pay phones or pet doors because such things simply won't exist. But the environment might set a certain level of expected functionality--and I think that breaks unity. For instance, can I unscrew the panels of the comm station to get at the wiring behind it on the sub? No? Well, then, even though my expectations of geographic limitation have been properly set, the world still reveals its limits.

Of course, my ability to analyze this sort of thing drops sharply the more occupied you keep me. A sub springing leaks, a quarreling crew, and going pale when I hear over the sonar noises that sound distinctly like fast moving propellers coming right at me... well, who gives a care how interactive the world is, I've got a job to do! [smile]

Any game world will be finite, and the boundaries will ultimately seem contrived. Players will notice that they're always on some freaking island. They'll find the invisible walls and physics anomalies that pen them in. At the end of the day, we all know game worlds are arenas. But like Wavinator said, if you make the experience dynamic and immersive and subtle, they won't resent it.

Even though the world may be small, at least come up with something interesting when things are unaccounted for, such as Halo's "Guardians."

It's entirely possible to create a world (or universe) that grows indefinitely. For example, take a look at Star Control (1,2 and 3). What if there was no boundry? What if planets were created on first exploration and randomly generated? Aliens the same. Random dialog may be a bit tricky, but it's possible. Ship designs, different species. If well thought out, the environment could simply never end.

Morrowind towns and caves are a really good example of something that could easily be generated. But you would need the occasional spurt of generated weapons and armor to keep things interesting.

I doubt such an idea is feasable for indie developers. But the possibility may still be a great thing to explore even if you don't generate aliens and dialog. Imagine being in a conflict with the Ur-Quan, where you both end up controlling thousands of star systems in the mid-point of the war.

The only limiting factor that I can imagine would be hard drive space. Your saved games could end up taking over half of it :P

I was trying to make the point that a small, circumscribed setting is BETTER than an infitinte or sprawling setting because it's more structurally sound and encourages deeper worldbuilding, more sustained character development, and interactivity between game objects.

Megaman Legends does the whole one island thing, and quite well actually.

For Scifi settings, theres always the Biodome (no Pauly Shore), or the O'Neil Island cylinders (think Mobile Suit Gundam). This actually reminds me of Hideo Kojima's Zone of the Enders, where the whole game took place on a subsection of a Toroidal space colony.

Even though not a game in itself, a perfect island setting is that of the original Halo's "Silent Cartographer". In it, you assaulted the island via an airdrop, stormed a beach, explored the island for structures, attacked a security system, and eventually opened a gate to the next level.

This combination of exploration and field battles hooked me, it was like a futuristic normandy beach landing. Hooked I say!!

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Original post by Jiia It's entirely possible to create a world (or universe) that grows indefinitely.

Yes. It's usually empty.

Would you classify the endless traversal possible in some space games - made ironic by the fact that, in many instances, turning around presents you with the site of action (stellar dogfights and all) almost immediately - as indefinitely growing? I mean, it's not like you come up against a boundary or wrap around...

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Original post by sunandshadow I was trying to make the point that a small, circumscribed setting is BETTER than an infitinte or sprawling setting because it's more structurally sound and encourages deeper worldbuilding, more sustained character development, and interactivity between game objects.

It is fun? Will I still be able to finish the game in less than 10 hours over the course of a week? While my kids jump all over me? Without alienating my gorgeous wife?

Yeah, I'm an interstitial gamer [free registration required, iirc], and all of you designers better get with the program! [smile]