Well its this time of the year where we get the new version of DX MS API, but where is OpenGL 1.2 for win32?, u know that little thing that no one uses (so MS will soon hope). Looks like MS are practicing there policies that they are currently in court protesting about "calling them inovation". Didnt hitler supress his pple to get what he wanted. Now i use OpenGL and will always as far as i can, do so. Dont get me wrong D3D 8 is proberbly better, well OpenGL 1.1 has been kicking aorund for a bit and although the extension mechanism of OpenGL alows the use of new Techniques (some thing MS has pinched from OpenGL and Put in D3D8) we still need the core updates, those are speed inprovements in the core mechanism that have been introduced with OpenGL 1.2, Here is a little bit of information for u pple DID U KNOW THAT APPLE ALREADY HAVE A WORKING VERSION OF OPENGL 1.2 FOR THERE MACHINES! In fact they have already made a revsion of the 1.2 api currently on 1.2.1. Now considering we got OpenGL first that we would have OpenGL 1.2 by now. No wait sorry forgot MS have there own API must remember best way to win is to fu*k the competion up as good as posible. ~prevail by daring to fail~

DID U KNOW THAT MOST PEOPLE ALREADY HAVE A WORKING VERSION OF OPENGL 1.2 FOR THERE MACHINES?

IT''S CALLED DETONATOR IF YOU HAVE AN NVIDIA CARD!
JUST QUERY THE VERSION NUMBER OF YOUR OGL IMPLEMENTATION AND YOU''LL SEE!

nuff said..

I''ll bet that if there was an increment on the current OpenGL version, but nothing was changed and it was identical cept for version numbers, this wouldn''t have been posted.
Sure, sure, OpenGL hasn''t been updated much lately... so? For the people that like OpenGL it really doesn''t need an update very badly, whats wrong with it?? What would you change?
If it ain''t broke, don''t fix it.
Theres no reason to change OpenGL simply for the sake of changing it. Thats what MS do with file formats to keep Linux users from using their files. OpenGL isn''t trying to block anyone out, so... why?

MS are not surpressing anything, they do not control what libraries/DLLs get installed on peoples machines.

If SGI (or anyone else) released a set of OpenGL 1.2 headers and libraries for Windows then anyone could use it. They have chosen not to yet.

I'm assuming OpenML when it comes out will include OpenGL 1.2 (search for OpenML in this forum to find out what that is, basically it's a media library including OpenGL, fully supported by SGI)

Dan

Edited by - danbrown on December 7, 2000 8:16:06 AM

OpenGL is created by an entirely different entity, and Microsoft isn't obligated to use it on their operating system. Does Windows PREVENT OpenGL from being installed? No. Does Windows "detect" OpenGL and give it the boot in favour of DX8? No. Do people who whine about how evil and greedy Microsoft is really annoy the hell out of me? Yes.

Look, Microsoft isn't suppressing anything. If they wish to change the file formats on THEIR created file types, then that is their right. News flash--Windows is MICROSOFT'S creation, and therefore, they can do whatever the heck they want with it.

"'Nuff Said."

Sure, sure, they didn't invent the GUI.... But who cares?? Did anyone here invent his or her own graphics library (eg: OpenGL)? What's that, no you say? Well then...

"'Nuff Said."

The bottom line is that DX is finally maturing into a solid multimedia programming API, and I think that's great. If anything, it will ENCOURAGE more development for OpenGL, however, there is one last thing a lot of people seem to forget:

D3D is looking more and more like OpenGL. To quote Protozone:

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

OpenGL is STILL a rock-solid 3D API, and it always will be.

And by the way--who CARES if there is an updated version of Microsoft's SOFTWARE (read: SLOW AS HELL) implementation of OpenGL? Get a real 3D accelerator (such as anything made by nVidia), and you will get a good OpenGL ICD.

Just my two cents.... I don't necessarily like everything made by Microsoft, but I do like Windows, and Microsoft is still its own entity entitled to create, redefine, and manage Windows development as it sees fit. If anyone cares to dispute that fact, then to that person I say: Write your own Windows.

--David

Edited by - Sakairu on December 7, 2000 8:43:28 AM

Acctually until MS release headers and libs for there win32 api there wont be a verified opengl implementation un till MS crweate the libs for it. As for already having opengl 1.2 well i got the glext header to and it only wrote against the Opengl 1.2 specification and doesnt support software rendering which is one ofthe Major advantages over DX that OpenGL has. Another thing. i do know who created Opengl and if u knew ne thing else u would know that its up to the OS providers to Implement Opengl on there O/S there fore Windoze being ownd by MS its up to them to support it Fully. Thurvermore did i say that the O/S way prejudise towards OpenGL erm no!

If it aint Broke make it better!

~prevail by daring to fail~

??? Am I missing something ? WTF has M$ to do with OpenGL ? That''s complete crap... M$ is not bashing OpenGL nor is it supporting it. HW vendors write an OpenGL eimplementation for their cards and then you have your OpenGL32.dll. What headers from Microsoft ? For what do you need any stuff from Microsoft ? They have absolutely nothing to do with this...

Tim

--------------------------
glvelocity.gamedev.net
www.gamedev.net/hosted/glvelocity

Sorry to break this to you, guys, but Microsoft IS holding up the process of OpenGL 1.2 being standard on Windows.

Video card manufacturers do NOT provide the opengl32.dll. They provide an ICD (installable client driver) that opengl32.dll hooks into. For the detonator drivers, the ICD file is called nvglnt.dll. The version number you get back from the gl driver is returned from the ICD, but unfortunately this doesn''t mean you have direct access to all the 1.2 features, because they have to be exposed by opengl32.dll (which is provided by MS).

Why do things work this way? Because that''s how the GL ARB decided it should be done. And, by the way people, Microsoft IS a member of the ARB. They agreed to support this model on Windows. Yes, that''s right, they DO support OpenGL. Or, at least, they''re supposed to.

So why do we need GL 1.2? It turns several 1.1 extensions into requirements, so we don''t have to write code that tests for these features and provides alternate implementations. These features include distance-attenuated points, texture coord matrices, vertex arrays, 3D textures, and specular highlights for textured surfaces. Very useful features to have, I think.

So in summary, Microsoft IS responsible for providing a 1.2 implmentation for Windows (by their own accord), but they have yet to deliver. They last said it would be in Win2000 SP1, but that didn''t happen. Now they''re saying that service packs will no longer add new features, so who knows?

Any questions?

Morbo

Thnx Morbo - at least i know that one more person out there has some idea of how responsability forrOpen GL is distributed between the various companies. MS are gettin ready for the relese of whistler (slated for next year) this may explain the No more features in Service Packs

~prevail by daring to fail~

M$ is using their monopoly in a way that hurts consumer. In reality does they control OpenGL on the windows platform.