I loathed PSO dungeon design. You absolutely had to clear every room before moving on, they paths were linear, the monsters were repetitive, and it took at least an hour to make any semblance of progress that can be saved. I still play the dang thing, but it's because I'm a little bit addicted to the grind. The dungeon design is lousy.

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Original post by Anonymous Poster What I think the world dungeon stands for is the idea of a set-piece location, which is of special interest due to challenging monster / traps-puzzles and rewards. A dungeon doesn't have to be underground although most tend to constrain you in some way (a dinosaur filled plateau) because this adds to the psychological edge of the challenge. A 'dungeon' could be the Mall in Dawn of the Dead films, likewise the mystical forest bit in Final Fantasy 7 which has eerie music, powerful rewards and a sense of mystery. Ketch. Ketch

Exactly. I tried to clarify this a bit by specifying 'dungeon/level', but yes, there's no reason it needs to be a building or an enclosed space. Level designers are fairly creative in the medium that they use for their puzzle, but as long as it's engaging, Im into it.

Im planning on implementing several "tools" to help players on their progress. Some form of jumping, maybe some climbing, and several forms of water transport (raft, canoe, whatever!)

Ultima Online's Dungeon Deceit. It was THE place to be.

Level One: Everyone hung out here and challenged eachother to duels.
Level Two: The noobs formed a wall in the doorway to the skeleton warriors. They'd work together, training up their skills. Get hit, step back and the wall would stop the skeleton from coming through. As long as you had enough players to keep 3 people in the wall, this was a wicked way to train.
Level Three: All the best mobs (and thus, best players) were here. Lots of PvP and PvE to be had. Everytime you went down to the third level you risked your life from either of the two. That's what made it so much fun.

The best areas (dungeons included) are ones that include something for everyone. So much so that they become mini-communities themselves.

You know thats an interesting point at the the end there Grozzler, i've noticed in other games (like Ragnarok online) where people tend to congregate and form mini-communities in dungeons, fighting monsters and hanging out on several levels. Something more to think about when designing them, since you could (theoretically) create safezones in dungeons were people would congregate, you'd get player merchants and you could end up with communities like those in Ultima Underworld. ;D

I agree with the UO dungeons mentioned; a lot of my most memorable experiences with MMORPGs are in UO. I remember being in one of the high end dungeons on the lowest floor and trying to fight dragons *and* be on the lookout for PK's all alone down there!

Here are some of my favorites:

Everquest - Velketor's Labyrinth: This one is pretty unique, for an MMORPG at least, in that it expands vertically instead of horizontally like most dungeons do. Not only do the monsters get stronger as you go higher, but also the chance that you will go splat 'cause you just slipped off the top level when looking for stuff to kill!

Zelda 2 - Death Mountain area: If you didn't know the 'trick' to getting through it, you could get stuck here for quite a while as many of the caves looped around or were dead ends.

Final Fantasy 9 - Ipsen's Castle: I was wondering why I wasn't doing much damage to the enemies in here. It was because this was supposed to be a 'reverse' area, with the castle being upside down and only the weakest weapons would actually work.

Phantasy Star 3 - Not really a 'dungeon' but I liked how all the worlds were interconnected in a way that made sense. i.e, a cave in the SE section of one world would lead to the NW section of the world you are travelling to.

Im not, in general, a big fan of MMORPG dungeons. The reason being, with most MMORPGs, the world is divided into 3 areas: towns, space between towns, and dungeons. Towns normally have no enemies, the space between towns have (for the most part) very weak enemies, and the dungeons have all the stronger enemies. Players then tend to think of the game in those terms.
The other problem with them is that the worlds there are static. There's obvious reasons for this (thousands of players, players coming and going periodically), you're never really going to be able to make a difference in it.
I do like the idea of underworld communities. If anyone here has played Final Fantasy V, there's a dungeon towards the end of the game where there's a mini-town part way through.

Surprises are good, like when the giant statues become alive (except that this is done so often that people expect it) still fun though.

Horror game type techniques are also good, where you create tension that something horrible will appear from behind the next corner. Ie. Playing off the player's expectations.

check out ico that is just one big dungeon. Brilliant puzzle design.

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Original post by Anonymous Poster Labrinth. The Name of the Rose. (Harry Potter staircases.) Klein bottles & Mobius strips. Escher. How about making levels where the level rearranges itself as you go forward / backwards. With walkways rotating 90 degrees, the floor becoming the ceiling. Tables stuck to the ceiling. And a living beating heart that powers the machinery at the centre of the structure.

Level rearrangement is nice, since the player has almost no foresight about what the rearrangement will do for the future. The illusion of non-determinism can be very frustrating and unnerving in a puzzle environment. Not sure how I feel about the heart in the middle... kinda creepy... hmmm.

I like dungeons and levels where a structure has multiple uses. The Tower of Ganon in A Link to the Past was terrific, because you had to explore the entire basement before heading up the tower (but the tower design was half-hearted). The Tower of Babel in Final Fantasy IV was the same way - approaching the structure from multiple levels/entry points.

I remember most of my dungeons I built myself - in Dungeon Keeper. How can you forget them?!
Those specific textures, creatures, treasures... Gas traps, doors etc.. End especially screams of the fight you're involved in.... Ummmm, Dungeon Keeper... Best keeper-game ever.