I am searching for the right music format for my freeware game at the moment . Well, using MP3 music in a game is free up to 5000 copies of a game . Beyond this you have to pay 2500 dollar for each song . I have 11 songs, which would mean that i would have to pay 27500 dollar in the case that i distribute more than the told 5000 . I think i will reach this 5000 copies limit very quick . And i am simply not willing to pay this much licence money just to have MP3 in my freeware game . So that´s MP3 out ... Next thought : Ogg Vorbis . Ogg is free. But i am not this satisfied with the result ( changes its value at some points. A very visible effect which annoys me ). And i would also have to install the Ogg codec a the user´s pc . Then there is WMA . This codec is natively installed at nearly every Windows PC. Still, i cannot find any informations in the net if there are the same licence issues than with MP3 . Google leads to nothing useful . Even the Microsoft page doesn´t give any useful info . But maybe i am not looking at the right place . The Microsoft page is somehow confusing to me . Could somebody point me in the right direction please ? Is there a license connected when i use WMA songs in my freeware games ? And if so , where can i find closer informations ?

Ogg changes value? If you're talking about its bitrate (variable bitrate is a GOOD thing!) there's an option to use constant bitrates instead (quality ls worse though). And as for installing the Ogg Vorbis codec, can't you just statically link to the Vorbis libraries?

You might be able to get around the licensing by using the built-in Windows MP3 decoder to play your files (since the decoder is already licensed as part of Windows).

As far as using WMA is concerned, I have no idea as I've never used it in a project.

OGG : I am not talking about its bitrate . I am talking about that there are very significant value changings compared to the original wave . MP3 and WMA doesn´t show this behaviour this significant ...

Quote: You might be able to get around the licensing by using the built-in Windows MP3 decoder to play your files (since the decoder is already licensed as part of Windows).

No no . I am not talking about decoding the final song. Decoding/playing through windows inbuild module is licensefree . And so i wouldn´t worry about .

I am talking about license fee just for releasing any MP3 . The format itself . It´s the makers of the MP3 Codec, the Fraunhofer Institute and Thompson, that wants money when you distribute a game which contains MP3 Music. Below 5000 copies of the game it´s free . But over 5000 it costs money . Lots of money : 2500 Dollar for each song . And 5000 copies are quick released ...

Have a look here to get closer informations . Click at Royalty rates at the top, then at Games at the left :

http://www.mp3licensing.com/

Well, WMA could be an alternative , because i am not this lucky with OGG , as told . But i cannot find any useful informations if Microsoft also has such a licensing for WMA . And i cannot believe that there isn´t any . Because we are talking about Microsoft here ...

Anyway, thanx for reply :)

Seems that i have to contact Microsoft itself to get closer informations ...

Quote: Original post by tiles
OGG : I am not talking about its bitrate . I am talking about that there are very significant value changings compared to the original wave . MP3 and WMA doesn´t show this behaviour this significant ...

WTF? OGG, MP3 and WMA all distorts the original waveform to some extent. What is wrong with OGG? Loads of commercial games use OGG and Operation Flashpoint, UT2004 and 2005 are a few examples. Surely you seen this page:

http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/listen.html

As for WMA that is a big no, no. If any of those 3 formats have quality problems it's WMA. I'd go with MP3 or OGG anytime over WMA.

Anyway AFAIK WMA is free to use in your own games. Surely if you are using the built in players, there is no need to pay licencing fee, cause I'd argue that out on fair use principles. I don't have to pay a licence everytime I used my CD player do I?

Are you sure MP3's limitation applies to freeware games? And, also, I think it's 2500$ per game title, not tune or sound or anything like that...

That´s what mp3licensing.com says :

Quote: mp3 · US$ 2 500.00 per title

Per title it says. And so i think it is per songtitle . Hmm, anyway, even when it´s for the game , it´s a hell lot of money . I don´t think that a freeware author is willing to pay it . I am definitely not :)

It also doesn´t seem to exclude freeware projects :

Quote: Interactive software products intended to interact with a user for entertainment (action, role play, strategy, adventure, simulations, racing, sports, arcade, card and board games) and/or education, that may be published for multiple machines, platforms or media. ... Note: No license fees are due if less than 5 000 copies of a particular game title are distributed.

5000 copies seems to be the limit. No matter if it is a commercial project or a freeware one ...

For the value problem : Sure, all of them disorts the music by compression . But OGG is the worst of the three from what i can hear in the result . Maybe it´s because the used music is more classic style , with different value passages. Those songs sounds better with WMA than with OGG. In the end it doesn´t matter and may be a thing of faith . I will use OGG when WMA really has license issues .

Quote: Anyway AFAIK WMA is free ...

Heh, that´s what i have thought about MP3 . And then i stumbled over Fraunhofer Institute MP3 Licensing ... :D

But that´s the whole point : i cannot find any info about license issues with WMA .

Quote: Original post by tiles
But that´s the whole point : i cannot find any info about license issues with WMA .

Then I would assume you can use it, without paying royalties. If they don't explicitly state they want royalties, I would have thought you didn't need to pay for using it. Plus, Microsoft are an organisation who usually make it very clear when they want you to pay for something!!

Note: i have meant volume with the OGG thing , not value . Ogg makes it louder and/or qieter at some song positions where it shouldn´t . MP3 and WMA too, but here it isn´t this dramatic . Sorry for my misspelling . English isn´t my native mothertounge ...

Quote: Then I would assume you can use it, without paying royalties. If they don't explicitly state they want royalties, I would have thought you didn't need to pay for using it. Plus, Microsoft are an organisation who usually make it very clear when they want you to pay for something!!

Finally confirmed . I have found my information . WMA is fine for my needs . No per Unit licensing like MP3 has :

"Licensed by Microsoft; fees are for use of tools to create content or for the provision of decoders to endusers, not per use or per unit distributed."

So the license fee seems to be paid by using a software like Wavelab to encode it to WMA . I also don´t distribute any codec . I use Directshow , which uses the WMA codec at the end users pc . And so i can distribute as many games with WMA Songs as i want ...

Phew , digging for this information was a hard piece of work . Thanx for all this useful informations . And thanx for help :)

Sounds like you're unintentionally using a normalisation feature of your ogg encoder; if there are any alterations in sound level it is your fault and not the codec! :)

Maybe.

Still, the same song , the same bitrate, the same software: Audacity . I haven´t found any note in the manual that it normalizes by default when encoding . One saving as MP3. One saving as OGG . The OGG file shows this significant volume changing. MP3 not ...

Same song , another Software, because Audicity doesn´t save as OGG , even lower bitrate than in Audacity : WMA sounds best to me .

That was just my own experiments .

My musician , who writes the music , has Wavelab . And was able to test all three encoding types with one software. He´s the one with the best ears . And he shares my opinion , too .

As told , it may be that it depends of the Music itself , so that in this special case WMA shows the best results ...