http://www.designersnotebook.com/Columns/027_Letter_From_a_Dungeon/027_letter_from_a_dungeon.htm Yes, this is quite clearly a question based on Ernest Adams amusing piece linked to above. What I want to ask is how can we make the player of our grand quest games feel like a proper "fantasy hero". Rather, than a pest exterminator killing hundreds of mindless rats / kobolds etc.

Simple, don't have the player exterminate hundreds of <generic monster>. Give them less enemies, but make them more interesting to fight, and harder to beat.

How about an arch-nemesis for the player that's always plotting to try to kill them, but whom escapes from the player before dying until such time as the player sets up a worthy trap. How about some badguys that set devilish traps for the player? Give the player worthy opponents, rather than having them mindlessly slaughter entire armies of annoying critters.

[Edited by - Kazgoroth on May 18, 2005 12:15:32 AM]

The problem is filling the story, I think. Look at the movie Conan he was just like any fantasy hero from a game, the movie is about his journey and his fights with people and beast. Turn that into a game and the game would be about 10 minutes long. Most stories have to do with a long journey, or alot of talking if you were to have your hero in a game walk a long as distance and thats it the game would be boring. So the easiest way to make the journey more exciting is to fill it with tons of monsters. The problem is it doesnt stay exciting for long.
I think there needs to be things added to games, take Fable I think if you were to add some action sequenced in town where you are saving someone who falls off a roof, or catch a boulder that almost falls on someone. Kind of like the action sequences in Shenmue. The fact is heros think on their feet, they are fast, daring and dont think twice. I think shenmue represented this great, it just sucks when your game ends for not hitting the right keys in time. If there was another way to represent this I think it would make the player feel more like they are a hero.

I read this article some time ago and LOVED it. The sentiment about "and how we slaughter them" has stuck with me for years.

I really like XenoG2's comments about filling out content. It is a good idea, but I think that it's one of the most expensive ways of doing it. If you look at it, the pest exterminator is probably cheaper to implement because it is fueled by variation on a reliable system. Barring new animations and sounds, you get a lot of content / gameplay for a low price.

I often wonder if this same idea can be applied to non-combat gameplay. Saving someone or catching a boulder is a one time event which can't be cheaply repeated without looking foolish. What other repeatitive activities can we create variations of that would be interesting? Conversation? Trade? Stealth? What else?

I think Kazgoroth's idea of smarter, more varied enemies has potential, but you'll really end up with a similar effect because the content of the activity is what is ultimately creating the complaint. You could create hordes of enemies that are devilishly clever, some setting traps, attacking at range, retreating, luring you into traps... but you'd still be called an exterminator. If the rats were smarter, you'd still be killing rats, only ones that were damned difficult to kill.

I have personally always thought that a more advanced combat system with fewer battles would be more interesting then a simple system with lots of combat. Take a look at an older post I made called "The circle of death" for details. The other aspect that games spend to little time on in my view is non combat aspects, why is it that all I there is to do in the average RPG is enter dungeon, kill monsters, upgrade equipment, and repeat until end of game.

Quote:

Original post by TechnoGoth Take a look at an older post I made called "The circle of death" for details.

I had a bit of trouble locating it, so I thought I'd leave links here for anyone else who wants to take a look; I'm still going through them however, so I won't comment at this stage.
The Circle of Death.
The Circle of Death - Abridged Version (shorter OP, has replies).