Hi ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to ask you what you think the main differences between a novel like Alice in Wonderland and a game like Super Mario Bros is. If you think about it Super Mario Bros is very similar in terms of concept, ie. Alice: eat me / drink me = Size changing cakes and potions. Super Mario Bros: Mushrooms allow Mario to grow in size and become Super Mario. They both feature surreal worlds. So what seperates Super Mario Brothers from Alice in Wonderland? Apart from the fact that one is a game and the other is a novel.

All the characters in the mario brothers game,
Dual protagonists who are plumbers and male.
Different plot


In fact the only thing similar is the shape changing, and in mario bros its with a mushroom and you only become big, and in alice it's a potion.

I think you're trying to make a connection that just isn't there.

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Original post by Vanke All the characters in the mario brothers game, Dual protagonists who are plumbers and male. Different plot In fact the only thing similar is the shape changing, and in mario bros its with a mushroom and you only become big, and in alice it's a potion. I think you're trying to make a connection that just isn't there.

Indeed, pick any piece of literature and you'll probably be able to make an equally detailed 'connection' between them.

Mario Bros. is actually a fairly standard 'rescue the princess' plot if you hadn't noticed btw, used in many games, novels and fairy-tales.

Actually I think that it is more a question of recurring gameplay mechanics, character motivation and goals, etc.

Ie. Mario Bros is based around a simple set of actions that you use in fairly repetitive scenarios (although very well produced).

Alice in Wonderland is more about unique situations, ie. it is more like a graphical adventure game in that it doesn't keep repeating the same elements over and over and over again. Which isn't to say that the reuse of standard elements in Mario is bad, it is actually fun to keep jumping between platforms as long as there is variety in positioning and type of platforms.

Mario brothers emphasises trying and trying again if you fail at a task,

The goal of each level in Mario is to reach the end of it, they are linear.
Alice's goal is to wonder about and get home, she just has to react to things and solve problems to do so.

Imagine if Mario Brothers replaced the flagpole with the White Rabbit from Alice.... ? Would you still say it is a game about rescuing a princess?

Thoughts on this?

The biggest single difference?
Alice has a plot
Mario doesn't.

I know, Mario is trying to rescue the princess, but that's just to give a context, it doesn't actually influence or drive the game.

The point is, You could strip everything away from Mario, leaving just a black and white stick figure, and it would still be the same game. The graphics, the sound, the story, the characters, they are all superficial, meant to enhance the game, not intergral to it. This includes any of the similarities to Alice. They just don't matter.

You try to strip anything away from Alice, and it collapses on itself, it no longer works.

I can imagine a game based on the setting of the Alice novels that ....

would be a sort of adventure / platform game with Alice solving different puzzles to progress through the gameworld.


Thing is that this would only be true to part of the idea behind the novels.

Alice didn't as far as I know have an obvious goal to follow, even though she thought finding the white rabbit would help her get back home. So obviously if a game were based on this ie. you make it so that she tries to follow the rabbit around but finds that there are many obstacles to her way.

Many games (excluding Sims etc) are based on overcoming obstacles to
progress to achieve a specific goal, and we enjoy facing variations on the basic challenges many times over. But if a book were to keep repeating itself in this way it would probably become dull, ie. a warrior jumps out of the darkness at Tharg the barbarian, Tharg whacks it with his blade and the warrior is split in two ! Yuk. Adventure novels aren't about repeating the same thing over and over again with different variations, rather they are often about unique and meaningful opponents and challenges. and the motivations and internal reasons that contribute to the characters wanting to carry on etc. take the battle with the giant spider in The Lord of the Rings for example...

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Original post by Ketchaval I can imagine a game based on the setting of the Alice novels that ....

It's been done
A very cool game actually, though a little dark. Definately worth a look if you come across it.

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Original post by methinks A very cool game actually, though a little dark. Definately worth a look if you come across it.

Well, I haven't played it (been thinking about buying it though), but that sounds like a generic platform / shooter game. Which isn't what I have in mind at all, what I'm suggesting would be more like Super Mario Brothers meets Super Metroid + the Half-Life 2 gravity gun physics based gameplay. (But in 3d)Ie. Using objects in the levels to overcome obstacles. Ie. Using a giant mushroom as a bridge to another area. Shrinking down to get past something, or solve a puzzle that would allow you to get through.

Ie. A thoughtful game.

It is.
There is an element of action, but also quite a bit of puzzle work.
For example: there is one level (The chess level) where you have to get from one side of the level to the other. The floor is in the form of a chess board. As you move, you take the characteristics of certain chess peices, so you have to figure out how to get across the board using just their moves.
There is also a fair bit of growth and shrinkage, though a lot of it is scripted.

Just give it a shot

i second the recommendation of american mcgee's alice, although i found the combat cumbersome sometimes.

but maybe i'll play it again anyway (right now).