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Original post by Anonymous Poster

This motion prevents the sword from travelling much further than to your intended point of impact. Even if the opponent has moved out of the way the sword stops there (without using muscular force).

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Just a (not so short) note, since this discussion is about swordfighting. The same method is also used in unarmed martial arts. You twist your hand just before it hits, which not only stops the arm, but also give the punch or strike more power. Besides, it looks more sharp and "professional", when your hand "magically" stops in midair. Also, your arms or legs should never be totally straight at the end of a strike, since this could easily strain a muscle.

About slowing down the fight: maybe you could somehow calculate the adrenaline level of the PC (player character), and make the battle more slower and strikes more powerful with higher adrenaline level. And after an intensive fight, you should be really tired.

I intended to write a(n even) longer post, but I have to catch a train. Maybe I''ll write more tonight (it''s 13:55 in Finland now).

-Jussi

For a two-button mouse, I see the following options:

One click right button
One click left button
Double click right button
Double click left button
Click and hold right button
Click and hold left button
Click and hold right and left button
(I think one-clicking both buttons at the same time might be a little too hard to time, but if not, add ''one click right and left button'' and maybe even ''double click right and left button)

Personally, if I were developing a game like this at this very moment, I''d start by asking myself how much more I can accomplish by using a 3 or 4 button mouse. With all the requirements placed on people (videocard, memory etc), I think it wouldn''t be out of the question to make a 3 or 4 button mouse a requirement. It might even free up some other requirement area''s (maybe needing less memory, because the system using a 3 or 4 button mouse might be a little easier to program altogether)

I don''t know about 4 buttons, we want to try and keep this simple and intuitive, but 3 buttons would be great! The middle button could be used for blocks, and the left and right buttons for the respective hand. It would be relatively simple though to let the player assign the functions that would be best as a middle-mouse button to another key if they only have 2 buttons. I think that dragging from your body parts for kicks/shoves might be a little confusing in the heat of a battle, but this is mostly new stuff that hasn''t been tested yet, it would be interesting to see how well this would work. Is the direction your facing controlled by the mouse also? Or do you just face your character with the keyboard, or what.

You could use the old Diablo trick for facing. Shift+Click gives you the direction that you are facing. This allows you to start off with your back to the enemy and give a huge roundhouse of power with your slicing sword . About the dirty tricks though, in the heat of battle the battle is slowed down (remember?) and so, it wouldn''t be very hard to do it. Also, it allows for wild kicks in the air that cause you to land on your a$$. That would also be funny in battle .

Three button mouse would be ideal for this system. It isn''t really a lot to ask from people as games are already asking for 3DFX cards (over AUS$100) and a three button mouse would set you back around... AUS$15 at the least (AUS$40 at the most). Not really a setback is it. Considering that games cost around AUS$70-90 at release.

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

I know that this suject is fps/fighter orientated but here''s another idea that could be used for iso combat style game. If you click on the enemy then of combo''s will be aggresive, if you click on your character then all combo''s will be defensive.

You could also have it so if you are using two mouse buttons simultaneously then the longer you hold down the first mouse button before taping the second mouse button then the more power (damage or acurracy, depending on the move) you will get.

Accuracy could be determined also by how well you keep the pointer or view sight on your opponent whilst performing a combo.

Dwarfsoft, my 3 button mouse cost me under $20, although the Aussie $ was a lot better then

If this is for a fps then the player will be controlling the movement of their character with keys like W,A,S,D yes?? Why not make these keys part of the combo system as well?

Both mouse buttons being held down together i thing would be ideal for a block manuveur.

The hardest combo could be reserved for a disarm manuveur too (The Sir Lancerlot strike )



"So you''re the one that designed that game are you?"
*Gulp* "Umm, yeah"

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Original post by Paul Cunningham

I know that this suject is fps/fighter orientated but here''s another idea that could be used for iso combat style game. If you click on the enemy then of combo''s will be aggresive, if you click on your character then all combo''s will be defensive.

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Actually, it works for FPS, but BETTER for Isometric (3rd person view) like I already said . I already based it around iso, and I have been picturing it as iso since the beginnings of this discussion (in the realistic swordfighting thread).

I like the idea, but I think that using the drag and drop from the character to the enemy is a workable idea... Much more fun

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You could also have it so if you are using two mouse buttons simultaneously then the longer you hold down the first mouse button before taping the second mouse button then the more power (damage or acurracy, depending on the move) you will get.

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Hmmm, that is an idea I have to add *jots down in doc*

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Accuracy could be determined also by how well you keep the pointer or view sight on your opponent whilst performing a combo.

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It would be really cool, especially if the enemy was moving. The more accurately you keep the mouse over the desired location, the more accuracy you have.

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Dwarfsoft, my 3 button mouse cost me under $20, although the Aussie $ was a lot better then

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Yeah, which is why I said "AUS$15 and AUS$40 at the most" note that the 40 was for MOST and 15 was for approx price

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If this is for a fps then the player will be controlling the movement of their character with keys like W,A,S,D yes?? Why not make these keys part of the combo system as well?

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Who knows how you would control the character in an FPS... I am thinking iso remember... Good idea about the combo addition though

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Both mouse buttons being held down together i thing would be ideal for a block manuveur.

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Yeah, or all 3 even

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The hardest combo could be reserved for a disarm manuveur too (The Sir Lancerlot strike )

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Yeah, I am still deciding what would be the best choice for this move. Maybe you hold down left+right on the weapon for a while (to build up the power) and drag it in the direction you wish to disarm to... I don''t know if I explained that correctly... The trick, though, is to get enough power, and to keep the weapon under the mouse... Very tricky if the enemy is moving

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

How about being able to mark an enemy by clicking on them, they are then highlighted as marked. From here the player could use a gui too select there strike/defence/etc. Would this be to cumbersome or too far from what you''re trying to make?

One thing to ask yourself as you make this is "How do you feel about button mashing?" and if not so then "Will this turn our like this?" I''m thinking that any combat system that involves combo''s will have certain incouragments for the player to button mash.

Not that i''m suggesting it but i''m curious as to what it would be like in an iso rpg where you control the movment of the character as would normally be the controls in a fps:
W - forward
S - back
A - Rotate left
D - Rotate right
Space - Block
Left mouse button - target/activate
Right mouse button - attack
That would be quite strange (very Gauntlet''ish) in a way. You could have combo''s like:
Space-D-Left then left mouse button to perform a round house slice.

But away from all this here''s one more thought. I''ve been playing Tekken 3 quite a bit lately and the interesting thing that they do in that game is that they make the real tricky moves based on timing. So basically if you want to perform a special move then you have to time it perfectly when an enemy does one or two specific moves. It''s like there is a whole list of secret moves that can be discovered if you prod and poke around. It''s quite fun, maybe something like this could be implemented into an rpg realtime combat system. Although you would be very limited by what your graphics artists could (presumably not being paid either ) do and such a system would not be the easiest to balance to say the least

Hmmm, that control systems got me thinking now. I''m also working on a rpg with iso view and realtime combat system too you see. I wonder how it would feel? You''d have to allow the player to be able to configure how fast their character rotates too. Double tap "W" to run and use "A" and "D" to side step or dive. You could do quite a bit with it i think.

"So you''re the one that designed that game are you?"
*Gulp* "Umm, yeah"

Thats some good ideas paul.. Instead of W,S,A,D I would prefer to use the keypad. Then, you can have 8 as forward, 2 as backwards, 4 as rotate left, 6 as rotate right, 1 as strafe left, 3 as strafe right, and 7 and 9 for whatever other task you want (jump and duck maybe?)

You also have a few extra keys at your fingertips that way too

As for combos with the keys, I think it is complicating the system. It might be good in a game to use it, but I think that the system that I am working on gains more from simlicity and elegance instead of button mashing...

I just want to see more than ''hack, hack, hack..'' in the good ol'' topleft to bottomright

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

Yes i know exactly what you mean when you say "hack hack hack". I''ve always thought that the best way to avoid this is to allow more varing abilities to the player. I think going for combo and more manual control over how to fight won''t change much, it''ll just become a tekken/rpg or rts/rpg. The problem element in such hack ''n slash system lies in the health bar/points concept because it encourages a linear mindset of the player ("knock down opponents health to win").

If i had complete control over the design of an rpg i would design a network on related people. This way the player would have to be careful who to kill. There could easily be people walking around who are related to important people and if you kill them then you''ve got big problems. So instead the player will be incouraged to talk/trade and build relationships first. Then they can work out who they can kill later but there will always be a little bit of hesitation when it comes to killing. This way it won''t become the be all and end all when the character gets powerful because the character could look bad if they use it for the wrong purpose.

"So you''re the one that designed that game are you?"
*Gulp* "Umm, yeah"

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Original post by dwarfsoft

Thats some good ideas paul.. Instead of W,S,A,D I would prefer to use the keypad. Then, you can have 8 as forward, 2 as backwards, 4 as rotate left, 6 as rotate right, 1 as strafe left, 3 as strafe right, and 7 and 9 for whatever other task you want (jump and duck maybe?)

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What you have to remember is that
1. The user should be able to reassign any buttons that he/she thinks are in the wrong place.

2. We set an original goal of using three fingers on each hand maximum, without too much finger movement.


However, about the three button mouse: you could include it with the game, or include the game with the mouse. Might be good getting an agreement with Logitech about this, another way to make sure your game gets published . Commercial backing is always a good thing.

I haven''t got time to brainstorm more ideas right now, I might be back later .



People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~