"Crossroads" is an exercise in game design which may-or-may-not become an exercise in game creation. It is, essentially, the I-wanna-make-a-MMORPG project of someone who knows better... but just can't resist. In my defense, I think I have some interesting ideas -- which just happen to be significantly more feasible than trying to imitate commercial MMORPGs. If a (stereo)typical MMORPG is descended from MUDs, Crossroads' parents can be found among the MU*s --MUCKs or MUSHes or MUXes where people play by roleplaying and building, not by killing monsters and levelling. While Crossroads will most likely have combat, it won't have experience points or levels, nor will it provide a massive world full of mobs to be slaughtered. I want to make something that's cooler than that. The heart of Crossroads' design is user-created content. This will ideally fulfill two goals: First, to provide a varied and expanding world, without having to spend impossible amounts of time; second, to give creative users a means of building their own worlds-within-the-world. How? Well, the key is the engine. Rather than 2D tiled maps, Crossroads exists in discrete screens. The typical Crossroads screen is, in fact, a crossroads, with exits to other screens to the left, right, top, and bottom. Now, in and of itself, this is not very exciting: But look what happens when we add an extra half-dimension: This is a mock-up of Crossroads' 2.5D engine. It's still based on a 2D background and 2D sprites, but the background is now drawn (or rendered) to simulate 3D space, and the sprites are scaled as they travel on the y-axis. Even in this silly little example, you can see the difference it makes. Besides the fact that it just looks cooler, you get more virtual space per screen -- and you can also have larger, more detailed objects in the foreground. Now imagine that you're travelling along a similar but non-programmer-art road, until you hit a dead end -- and when you do, you can extend the road and connect it to your own land. This can be a realm you've made out of the standard Crossroads graphics, or out of an entirely new set, created with any program that can output .bmps -- or some mix of the two. Animation and scripting tools are also at your disposal. Mind you, the Crossroads server doesn't host your world -- your client actually becomes a server for the players who cross into it. You can then play host or DM, depending on your inclination. Show the visiting characters around your realm, or watch from a distance as they attempt to navigate its hazards -- which may include the NPCs you can create and control. When they return to the Crossroads server, or log off, players will be prompted to turn thumbs up or thumbs down on your realm. If you collect too many "downs" as compared to "ups," your realm will be disconnected from Crossroads, and your ability to relink temporarily suspended. This should quickly weed out the realms with glaringly bad art or obnoxious hosts. I see Crossroads itself as having a few points of interest, but the real features of the world are the places other people make. Rather than trying to find other artists who might like to collaborate on my world, I want to offer them the ability to make their own -- as part of a larger whole that also provides a built-in audience. I think there would definitely be people who'd be attracted to that. In addition, I hope to provide an environment where roleplaying can and does work -- something I'll probably be elaborating on at a later point. So. It's far from being a complete design, at this point... but I'd be interested to know what people think. And if you have a cherished idea for your own unconventional multi-user game, feel free to elaborate on it here. Wistfulness appreciates company, too.

The concept looks alright so far, but you havn't given all that much detail as of yet (ie. there isn't really any information on player interaction, what can be done, etc).

I like the concept of joining on extra worlds, but I'm not sure how well it would turn out. The option of creating your own content is certainly popular.

Now, what happens to a player's world when they are offline (and it has a good rating)?

Well currently, apart from a few technical details, your world sounds a lot like Second Life. Now this is not necessarily a bad or good thing, but you might want to look into it just to get an idea of some of the implications of a build-whatever-you-want and do-whatever-you-want (within limits) world.

Also, Like Kaz said, you haven't really given much information. Currently all you've described is a world that will have a wide variety of easily creatable scenery, (and possibly NPCs).

If what you want feedback on is specifically your ratings system (which is where you've given most detail) I think you might want to have the users specify why they are giving thumb ups or downs (or allow them to rate different areas, graphics, speed, topic etc.) As it would seem a bit harsh for some one with slow bandwidth to get his account suspended becuase his users didn't like the lag.

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Original post by Logodae In my defense, I think I have some interesting ideas -- which just happen to be significantly more feasible than trying to imitate commercial MMORPGs. If a (stereo)typical MMORPG is descended from MUDs, Crossroads' parents can be found among the MU*s --MUCKs or MUSHes or MUXes where people play by roleplaying and building, not by killing monsters and levelling.

Quick check before we go any further; you are aware of A Tale In The Desert, right?

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The heart of Crossroads' design is user-created content. This will ideally fulfill two goals: First, to provide a varied and expanding world, without having to spend impossible amounts of time; second, to give creative users a means of building their own worlds-within-the-world.

Sounds interesting. I'd say that problems you may face include deciding where people link their content, including 'griefers' devaluing adjacent screens by placing crap screens around them. Obviously the quality of the tools you provide and the variety of things they can create are a factor; the artistic background is only a tiny part of the content really, unless you want just want a walk-through deviantart.com.

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But look what happens when we add an extra half-dimension:

You get an infinitely large screen towards the north and can see much further to the northwest and northeast than to the southwest and southeast. How're you going to deal with that?

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Mind you, the Crossroads server doesn't host your world -- your client actually becomes a server for the players who cross into it. You can then play host or DM, depending on your inclination.

You can also then disconnect when you want to cause hassle to those in adjacent rooms (or actually on your screen). I can see this introducing latency as you constantly reconnect to different hosts, problems regarding firewalls/NAT on most home computers, and so on.

Your idea seems alot like a mix between the Wizardry Series and Furcadia.

All the wizardry games consist of that particular view (i particuarly like Wizardry 7), so i can assume that most forms of interaction that those games have would carry over. Furcadia seems to have most of your online elements as well, as players can create their own maps/textures/sound effects using their built in script engine and then upload it to the server (most maps data doesn't exceed 2mb's so the drain isn't that extensive). Though rather than attaching and adding to the map, they connect player maps with 'portals', this cuts down on lag since people don't have to constantly update (though i could see you just warning people if their entering a players map and if they proceed further will download it). By attaching players maps directly to the main maps though you can let the players create their own realms, which could be fun if some limited RPG elements/combat/puzzles were included. That said i'd say Furcadia's only letdown is that its near 100% roleplaying (which i find a complete turnoff).

I can see some exploitation with the rating system, groups/clans could get together and 'vote out' people they don't like or some rivals. The whole thing could get messy and unenjoyable. The voting system shouldn't directly boot people, but perhalps effect where they can link their map. If their map is extremely good and well voted, then it could be connected directly to the main map and become part of the game world. If its a poor map noone likes, then it may never go beyond being a portal (or whichever form it may be in).

The idea of a 'user-built' world lacking pre-existing mobs and focusing on player interaction sounds exactly like Second Life.

I have heard of at least one MUD with user-created rooms. There was a complex tutorial and scripting language to contend with, but I don't remember anything else about it.

I agree that players' machines being servers is a little sketchy. What's there when they aren't? Nothing? I'd hate to be stranded in one area because the four adjoining roads all logged off simultaneously.

How big can these files possibly be? Put a cap on how much content a given room can have, and then have them all be uploaded to the server.

And I agree about some kind of gameplay. I don't want to walk around and talk to people without fighting or collecting things or actually doing anything.

Maybe custom rooms could have their own rules, though, so you could have places where guns don't work, or violence is prohibitted, or there's no talking allowed. That could add to the experience.

A few people mentioned Second Life and A Tale In The Desert. I'm aware of both of those, but haven't done more than look at their respective websites. I'd really like to know what they're like to play... without actually having to play them myself. I'll probably try to track down some in-depth reviews, but if anyone has experiences they'd like to recount (cautionary tales are especially appreciated), they'd certainly be on-topic.

For the record, I think 2.5D has the potential to be more aesthetically appealing than low-poly 3D -- at least to my eye.

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Original post by Kazgoroth Now, what happens to a player's world when they are offline (and it has a good rating)?

It goes away. A significant portion of the appeal, to my mind, is the knowledge that accessible realms are being "run" by their respective creators -- who will hopefully be making some effort to entertain the people who stop by. Yes, it means that you might not be able to go back to the place you were hanging out in yesterday. So? Go exploring instead.

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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage I'd hate to be stranded in one area because the four adjoining roads all logged off simultaneously.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. The Crossroads server hosts the generic roads, which can be extended by players as needed. These provide a framework for players to link their own realms to. Player realms can consist of as many screens as the player wants to create and host, not just one screen. In the event that the realm you're in logs off, your client reconnects to the Crossroads server and finds your last position. (For effect, you probably get thrown onto the screen as if by an explosion, as the road that formerly linked to the realm dissolves into nothingness.)

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Original post by Anonymous Poster With the landscape chaning so much because players are adding areas, computers being turned off, etc, you may want to add a stargate like system for the more stable servers. If you have a server you like you just dial it up and you don't spend 2 hours walking around until you find it again.

This is the main reason I'm attached to the idea of an integrated client/server approach: People can, if they want, run their realms entirely independantly of Crossroads. I think it's beneficial to players and to the game as a whole.

Gyrthok mentioned Furcadia, and he's right. Furc was the first online game I played, and it's a huge influence on this design -- both in terms of what I want to do, and what I want to avoid. One problem with Furc is the vast quantity of two-player "dreams." (Dreams being equivalent to what I've been calling realms.) People use them as private rooms. That's fine by me, but they shouldn't be on the map if they don't want company.

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Original post by Kylotan Obviously the quality of the tools you provide and the variety of things they can create are a factor; the artistic background is only a tiny part of the content really, unless you want just want a walk-through deviantart.com.

Yes, absolutely. The scripting language is going to have to be fairly extensive -- and the editor going to have to be user-friendly, too, or nobody's actually going to use all the cool functionality. <understatement>It's not a small project.</understatement>

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You get an infinitely large screen towards the north and can see much further to the northwest and northeast than to the southwest and southeast. How're you going to deal with that?

Edit: I get it. Yes, going off-screen to the north could potentially be problematic. Two thoughts: One, I intend to have a decent run cycle on these characters -- you're not stuck walking north. Two, what if this is essentially a small spherical world -- i.e., you always disappear over the horizon, rather than at the vanishing point? I'm not sure how that would look, but it's worth trying. Another possibility is to throw some haze on all the horizons, and have people disappear into that.

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You can also then disconnect when you want to cause hassle to those in adjacent rooms (or actually on your screen). I can see this introducing latency as you constantly reconnect to different hosts, problems regarding firewalls/NAT on most home computers, and so on.

Again, sorry I wasn't clearer on the exact nature of the user-created realms. I'd also hope that people who go to the trouble of creating realms will have better things to do than hassle visitors by disconnecting. With regards to your second point, I don't know much about networking, so please excuse my naive question: Since clients and servers both need to send and receive data, why would user-run servers be more problematic than user-run clients? With regards to firewalls, I mean, not bandwidth.

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Original post by Kazgoroth I think you might want to have the users specify why they are giving thumb ups or downs (or allow them to rate different areas, graphics, speed, topic etc.) As it would seem a bit harsh for some one with slow bandwidth to get his account suspended becuase his users didn't like the lag.

Hmmm. It's a thought... but if it takes more than a few seconds to rate, I'm afraid people won't bother. And if someone don't have much bandwidth, they should be fairly minimalistic in their design -- I think lag is a perfectly reasonable thing to downrate for. Lag is annoying. FYI, it's not a matter of account suspension -- you just get your realm disconnected and can't put it back for a while.

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Original post by Gyrthok (though i could see you just warning people if their entering a players map and if they proceed further will download it). By attaching players maps directly to the main maps though you can let the players create their own realms, which could be fun if some limited RPG elements/combat/puzzles were included.

That's pretty much the plan. :)

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That said i'd say Furcadia's only letdown is that its near 100% roleplaying (which i find a complete turnoff).

Wait... what? Since when? Hmm. Well, there's roleplaying and there's roleplaying, I guess. I left Furc because there wasn't any roleplaying -- just people wearing silly descriptions, posturing at each other, and occasionally getting into "fights" that devolved into arguing over who would kill whom. Which is why Crossroads' design includes combat.

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I can see some exploitation with the rating system, groups/clans could get together and 'vote out' people they don't like or some rivals. The whole thing could get messy and unenjoyable. The voting system shouldn't directly boot people, but perhalps effect where they can link their map.

Hmm. The thing is, I really want to give players as much power to deal with problems as I can, and I'm concerned that people uploading poorly-made or deliberately offensive realms, or abusing their (substantial) power within their realms, are all potential problems. But I can see how the power to deal with that effectively is indistiguishable from the power to cause problems -- as long as you can get a few friends to join you. It's something I'll need to think about, certainly.

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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage And I agree about some kind of gameplay. I don't want to walk around and talk to people without fighting or collecting things or actually doing anything.

Well, to a certain extent, gameplay is user-driven, too, depending on what realm you find yourself in -- but there does need to be a basic framework of how things work and what you can do. I'll definitely be elaborating on that as my ideas shape up into something cohesive. I'm trying to come up with something that will keep people interested long-term, without the carrot-on-a-string effect of levelling. I know that there's a limit to how much I can rely on user-created content.

[Edited by - Logodae on March 22, 2005 6:14:55 PM]

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Quote: That said i'd say Furcadia's only letdown is that its near 100% roleplaying (which i find a complete turnoff). Wait... what? Since when? Hmm. Well, there's roleplaying and there's roleplaying, I guess. I left Furc because there wasn't any roleplaying -- just people wearing silly descriptions, posturing at each other, and occasionally getting into "fights" that devolved into arguing over who would kill whom. Which is why Crossroads' design includes combat.

Mmm, it depends on where you go. Imaginarium was often filled with people and roleplaying realms, but many of the actual roleplaying was probably setup before hand. Most of the Bars and Clubs in FurN and other dreams in general tended to be filled with people who were bored out of their minds and tended to just sit there. Not being able to do something other than roleplay tended to suck alot of the fun out of it. I did give roleplaying a try in Furcadia though, but i found it glaringly annoying to always "Stay In Character" and pretend to be someone in an imaginary situation. I guess i'm just one of those people who likes to have actual situations come up rather than imaginary ones, which is probably why i like playing Planetside or Ragnarok and other action oriented games. ;D

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Original post by Logodae Yes, going off-screen to the north could potentially be problematic. Two thoughts: One, I intend to have a decent run cycle on these characters -- you're not stuck walking north. Two, what if this is essentially a small spherical world -- i.e., you always disappear over the horizon, rather than at the vanishing point? I'm not sure how that would look, but it's worth trying.

I'm not sure about the practicality of implementing that, since pretty much everybody attempts a flat world model. You'll have to somehow calculate where the horizon is, given the size of your character and the curvature of your world. I still think it would be a looooooooong way off compared to the east, west, and south directions however.

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Again, sorry I wasn't clearer on the exact nature of the user-created realms. I'd also hope that people who go to the trouble of creating realms will have better things to do than hassle visitors by disconnecting.

Well, you'd be surprised at the lengths that people will go to in order to exert power over the unwilling, unfortunately. Also, people will not always be in control of when they disconnect. It sounds like you have contingency plans for this but it does sound like it would harm the consistency of the world somewhat.

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Since clients and servers both need to send and receive data, why would user-run servers be more problematic than user-run clients? With regards to firewalls, I mean, not bandwidth.

The typical home computer setup accommodates the typical scenario of the user's PC making connections to servers on the internet. The user's firewall/router/ISP/all of the above tend to block the reverse - incoming connections from the internet to the user - for security reasons. The user can choose to open up the firewall, can configure the router if necessary, and can ask the ISP to unblock ports if indeed they are being blocked (rare but not unheard of), but this is not always trivial. Hence the prevalence of server-based games on the internet. On the other hand if all data is passed via your server as the middle-man, then there's no problem. Except for the double-latency. And the security problems of trusting one of your users with another one of your users.