yup me again I was getting a matrix thing setup so that i can apply it to my models verts before rendering and thus do collision detection since the model will not only be translated but rotated as well. But i dont know whats wrong with my matrix class thing. When it rotates the model the thing gets flat and all weird and stuff but it does rotate it. here is what i do matrix.LoadIdentity(); matrix.Mult(MatrixRotateX(Angle)); point = matrix.TransposeVert(point); is there something incorrect. the matrix code inst my own but it should be correct, next time i can post code