I''d love to start seeing controversy used in games....for uses...other then simply getting Lieberman to go on a 4 week marketing tour. Rant commence 5-4-3-2-1: I want controversy! I want an intellectual plot that deals with the problems facing our society NOW. Where is the Chuck Palahniuk of game designers?? I want a game that will make you think about the issues it raises long after it is finished. Why hasn''t this game been made? Am I the only one who sees the same games being made over and over again with a fresh new coat of paint. The same boring stories rehashed over and over and over. Wife dies, Kids die...REVENGE. Aliens Invade, Monsters Invade...SAVE WORLD. Must find the Sacred Magical Flute to restore peace. J.G. Ballard of game design...save me! I am a gamer, yet I have to resort to reading novels to be affected. I want a game that makes me THINK..a game that isn''t simply a means to pass the time. Are designers afraid to test these waters...to try to create a story and game style that breaks the mold and gives gaming the respect it deserves...to make a game that is deep..that people will be studying and disecting years into the future. Maybe it isn''t possible to bring meaningfull-intellectual-controversial-dialog into a gaming environment...No, don''t throw in the towel yet. One day..One game..and it all will change. --------------- sorry..thats all the words my small mind can assemble into sentences for now.. -Tim Yarosh

I would also like to see games being used for intellectual purposes such as portraying and provoking thoughts about the state of the world. Personally I am also optimistic about this happening as smaller independent developers will have to find new ways to create a niche for themselves among the larger corporations that dominate the entertainment market. It will probably just get harder and harder to try to compete with graphics, coding techniques, storylines etc. as the larger corporations can pour so much more money into these things than the small developers. Who knows, maybe using games as an artform rather than streamlined entertainment will be the competitive edge that allows independent developers to survive.

Henry

I think most of us are looking for a bit of advancement in depth of games... And I know that my game promotes anti-racism... Even if it is only for goblins (maybe some people will get the hint).

Anyway... There needs to be more intellectual content and a bit of intellectual decision in content. Most game designers seem almost robotic:

"Oooh... New Engine... Better make a game with it!"

Nuff said

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

Racism really *isn''t* a controversial topic in the US anymore. Assuming you are denouncing it. There are very few non-fringe groups in the US that would disagreee with that statement.

And U6 already did that. Not to say that you can''t do it again, obviously. We''d all be screwed if we couldn''t work from past acomplishments.

Now, if you were to advocate racism. Now THAT would be a controversy.

I wrote a treatment for a joke game once, as a lark. Sid Meier''s Cleptocrat. That would be a controversial game. Probably a lot of fun to, if you like those sorts of things.

Never get published, but hey.

Amen.

I think the problem of actually getting intellectual content is threefold, though, and the last is the toughest. The first is market, and as Anon noted, that profit drive will probably prevent corporations from innovating in any significant way simply because innovative or intellectually complicated sells less. The audience that would appreciate deeper content has either already abandoned games, or was never drawn to them in the first place. Hence, you get gameplay that appeals to a traditionally more childish mindset, which sees things in black and white, with little depth.

The next problem is a technology limit. We haven''t really found a good way of expressing emotional content through the machine. We get combat and puzzle solving not just because they''re traditional, but because they''re relatively easy to express. You see, normally controversy and intellectual depth is shown through the lense of character. Look at drama, or even politics, for what I mean, and see how personal struggles and personal expression shape and define controversy because of the its human face. Starships and tanks and goblins arrayed in geometric strategy contests or puzzles don''t convey this well. (Stories attempt to fill the gap, and do so well for some, but overall are hampered by significant problems of linearity)

I think the last problem, though, is the hardest to overcome. You probably don''t get a lot of controversy in games even from the most innovative designers because some are of the opinion that controvery isn''t appropriate. You''ll have some people saying they play games to escape, not to deal with reality. Take for example games involving politics... not very popular, not very many... but games involving dragons... can''t swing a dead goblin without hitting one!!! (If I''m not mistaken, even the most controversial and intellectually challenging games do so under the safe cover of fantasy)

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Just waiting for the mothership...

Yep. It will most likely be the independent developers who create the game that will wake up the world to the fact that interactive entertainment is as an important medium as novels and movies.

Kernaghan, I agree..racism really isn''t a huge issue anymore..but at least dwarfsoft is addressing A issue.

I don''t think advocating racism is the kind of intellectual use of controversy I had in mind, but something American History X-ish. where racism is portrayed and explored throughout the game as a means of showing the roots behind it and the damage it can cause...that would be great.

I dunno, I guess any controversy would be fine...as long as it''s purpose is for thought provocation and not publicity.

I think, if you want a novel, you should go out and buy one. Most games should be non-Linear. I can see how, however, games can affect us (play Secret of Mana on SNES), and that a story in witch multiple paths can be taken, that shows our decision affecting the outcome, and show us why our decisions do make a difference, that can affect a person even more so. Games about politics, friendships, etc. that can have multiple outcomes and show how decisions can hurt others, or another moral of somesuch, would be a great idea. In fact, stop bitching about it, and do it. With games, you have the power to create such a thing, so Peddler, show the world what we are missing, and perhaps you can change the gaming industry...

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A wise man once said "A person with half a clue is more dangerous than a person with or without one."

The Micro$haft BSOD T-Shirt

My thesis is that the market for deeper controversial games will be relatively shielded from the huge game corporations.

In order to support a huge corporation you need to sell a lot of games. In order to sell a lot of games you must try to please everone. Making controversial games that are potentionally offensive to part of the market goes directly against the ambition to please everyone. I am not talking about such brutal controversy as advocating racism here. Disney got a lot of heat for their ownership in the company that produced Pulp Fiction and Sony was quick to ban the EQ account of an author that wrote a controversial story set in the EQ universe.

While the market for controversial games might not be large enough to support huge corporations it is probably large enough for many smaller companies to thrive from it. We see this in the film industry where many smaller productions have been very successful because the producers dared to deviate from the recipe
of ''safe ingredients'' that the larger companies slavishly follow.

Henry

quote:

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Original post by Kernaghan
Racism really *isn''t* a controversial topic in the US anymore. Assuming you are denouncing it.

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I would laugh if this weren''t so tragicly untrue. Racism and race issues have reached an equilibrium of silence. A combination of toxic political correctness and politican spawned codewords has hidden the prejudice, resentment, and hate and driven it underground.

But it''s still there and VERY controversial. (As a completely anecdotal bellweather, how many replies did I get to this thread? Most are too uncomfortable to even discuss!!!!)

quote:

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Now, if you were to advocate racism. Now THAT would be a controversy.

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This would be viable, AND controversial. You would need to determine how to maintain your moral center, though. Concentration Camp Manager the game, has already been done, but rather than being enlightening about the nature of horror and inhumanity, it was no more than a pukey piece of Neo-Nazi propaganda.

The trick is to stay serious and just. Look at a movie like Mother Night, an adaptation of Kurt Vonnegut'' work inwhich an American spy becomes crucial to Nazi to fomenting antisemitism. Or Fatherland, a tale inwhich Germany wins World War 2. Both handle Nazi attrocities controversially without losing their moral center (i.e, the issues are dealt with head on and justly)

Games have a lot of growing up to do before this sort of thing become possible, though.


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Just waiting for the mothership...

//Most games should be non-Linear
Did I say they shouldn''t? Of course they should, that is one of gamings key distinctions to other mediums. It''s also one of the main hurdles that makes it so hard to think up a way to deal with controversy and issues in a way that will effect the player..while still keeping the core components of what makes a game..a game intact.

//In fact, stop bitching about it, and do it
Bad day today?...ImmaGNUman, I think this is where ideas and progress towards this goal starts...by talking about it in the open with others.