Hi! Im still working on my side scroller.. Im having a bit of a problem though. I want it to have both ranged and close combat. But how on earth will i balance that? Sword versus Rifle Dagger versus Machinegun Katana versus bazooka It just doesnt sound fair :P In games that take place in high fantasy settings ranged and close ARE balanced.. there are usually more hand weapon classes then there are ranged ones. The bows take a long time to load a single shot.. the close combat classes have a fair chance at beating the ranged ones. In a futuristic setting though ranged weapons dont take long to load up a single shot, in fact they can blow a shitload of shots at a foe in less then a second. Balancing seems hard. But Id very much like the game to have both ranged and close combat classes. How do I make this possible? Ive come up with some ideas and was wondering if you guys could help out. *Make the close combat guys REALLY FRIKKING FAST and the ranged ones NOT SO FRIKKING FAST *Give the close combat guys nice stealth and cloak skills *Make bullets dodgeable *Make bullets blockable (and close combat weapons unblockable) hmm thats what ive come up with so far some sidenotes: I dont want the player to have 3 classes a ranged class a close combat class and a magic class (and maybe a work class but thats not important atm).. players will have 1 strong class, 1 normal class, and 1 weak class.. an example: you could have a strong magic class (frost magic) a normal Close combat class (dual handed) and a weak ranged class (sniper) Any tips? thx Kevin

Ranged weapons require some sort of ammunition, which could be a limiting factor. (You could run out?)

In a futuristic setting, close-ranged weapons are going to be enhanced technologically. Vibro-blades that resonate at a high frequency allowing them to cut through steel... lightsabers, electrically charged weapons, or some other high-tech enhancement that could make them popular choices.

If it is any thing like the old arcade games, the bullets move slow enough that you can dodge them.

Dune. People has sheilds that would stop anything moveing faster than a set speed. So a bullet would bounce off the shield but a slower moving kinfe blade would make it through.

Armor is very effective. Armor is just really really tough and only close range HIGH eneger weapons are very effective. I.e. a light saber.

Jedi. You have people walking around that can block bullets with a sword or other type weapon.

You need to find a way to provide distinctive palying styles based on the weapon. Perhaps give the people with close combat weapons a shield (or a way of shielding) so they can defend the bullets of the others.

So far, I see the close combat weapons as being very 'samey'. Spice them up a bit, make them different. You will want something like:

- Katana; mid-rangle close combat weapon. Multiple attack combos. Very quick
- Broadsword; slow attack but high damage ratio
- Dagger; quick, close-range but delivers a lighter damage factor
- Bo Staff; long reach, can disable an enemy (stun, perhaps)

As for the guns, you want to balance speed with accuracy. An uzi isn't accurate, but will fill the air with bullets. Perhaps you will need to also implement a 'minimum range' concept, so the guy with a bazooka won't be firing at targets three feet in front of him, but the guy with a handgun will. This will make it better for close-combat people to sneak in and get their blows in.

The fact of the matter is that modern firearms are the weapons of choice at all combat ranges.It's as easy to shoot someone with a revolver as it is to stab them with a knife, and you don't have to get within grappling distance with the gun. All the romantic notions about using stealth or kung-fu with melee weapons is ignoring the fact that it is possible to walk quietly or train hard with firearms.

Here's a scenario:

If I'm a cyberninja with laser-to drawn, dashing toward a heavily armored space marine with a phased plasma rifle in the forty-watt range, then I'm basically sprinting through a hailstorm of plasma bolts, dodging or deflecting them as I go. Depending on my skill level, his skill level, and a modicum of luck, I'll either reach him and perform a decisive and virtually unavoidable attack, or I'll get peppered with blazing electric death, or he'll cease fire and prepare to counter my attack. I'm never boned by his rifle, he's never spammed by my sword, and there's always some way to react to the situation.

Here's my advice:

Implementation-wise, I recommend a sort of "luck meter". You can call it defense or stamina or whatever, but it amounts to plain old James Bond luck. I think Syphon Filter used something like this. If you're exposed to enemy fire, a meter depletes, and when it hits zero you start catching lead. More enemy fire, better enemies, or less moving around means the bar goes down faster. A decent sniper with a clean shot can hit you even if your bar is full. Use this meter, and have melee attacks have a greater effect on it. A solid slash would totally bypass it, because unless you block it, you're out of luck.

This way, guns would be terrific if they're used well and carefully, but you couldn't just spray and pray and expect many hits. Melee weapons would be effective, but you can't just run headlong at a machinegun nest and expect to close with your enemy before he vaporizes you.

That'll be $.02, please.

Melee classes could be much more powerful than ranged classes. Which will hurt a person more, a battle axe cleaving through his body, or a little bullet? ;D

Other games balance ranged/melee with a variety of approaches. Medival is usually with arrows/crossbows, which are inaccurate, slow to reload (sometimes), and easily dodgable if you know what your doing. In future settings its usually done with some kind of ballistic shield. The first game that pop's to mind that mixes swords with ranged weapons is Starwars: KOTOR, which very effectively blends medival swords and ranged weapons together. PLayers can activate shields (with limited power supplies) to obsorb ranged damage to get in close (where ranged weapons are less effective) and start hacking at them. Swords of course bypass shields.

There's also any one of the more recent Final Fantasy series, where guns seem to be just as effective as swords.

Let us remember the lession Slave Zero gave us, my children.. is basically a third-person shooter that many will call linear and low quality, but you know what?

No matter how much efficient was to use the guns, sometimes I just went melee on the enemies. Because:

1 - It was pratical. Shoot tanks? Stomp the tanks!

2 - It was easier. Shooting the aircraft in short range shucked ass -- was a better advantage charge and punch them (of course, if I wasn' going to fall some hole).

3 - It was cool. Nothing beats pulling off a piece of building to smack someone with it just because you can. And giving a few punches is healthy too.

So, am I crazy? Or these just are good solutions? Of course, you can always make the game centered in melee (Oni) but I still find Zero's solution better.

maybe you could add mobility and environment to the gameplay.

guns have range and reload faster but you can't really use them effectively
while moving. when using ranged weapons, you can't run all over the place and expect to hit a lot of stuff. speaking of hitting stuff, add hostages or explosive materials in the levels making the player think twice about missing the target and hitting the hostage/blowing everything up.

The enemy might also avoid friendly fire,
if the player uses ranged weapons, the ranged enemy will go all out and melee attackers will hang back a bit. when the player uses melee weapons, other ranged attackers tend to hesitate if you can get close to them, hold one of them as your hostage, shield.

basically make the environment interactive. make it possible to climb walls, throw crates, jump higher, use an enemy for body shield, etc in melee mode to make up for the lack of range.

guns can hit far away switches but melee weapons pry open a panel without destroying the components inside (which you use to "flip" the far away switch)

melee weapons can be used in a strong magnetic field/under water which may fry guns, which you can use to blast open stuff to get to other places.

sword verus rifle - I cut the rope which holds the crate of TNT above you
dagger vs machine gun - I have your boss at knifepoint, we walk to the door, I escape :P

katana vs bazooka - I run to a tiny room, climb above the door, as you come in I jump down and slice you.

I hope this helps a bit