Some books that involve immortal populations are Jose Farmers "Riverworld" saga and Wil McCarthy's "Wellstone" series.

Anyway, here are some dangers to add to the network.

Ad-Ware
In the 32n'd century, Ad-Ware programs infect everything. They generally infect the datanets and then transfer into a persons brain when they are ressurected. They hide in the back of your head until you either feel you need something, pass bye the item they advertise or just don't know what to do.

Bad-Ware
Often used by factions, these programs try to instil feelings of hatred toward specific people, factions, or things.

CAD-Ware
Origionally designed by scientists to boost their intelligence, these programs use brain power to solve complex mathmatical equations or design objects. A person infected with this may feel slow and be unable to focus on things because the program is using up their brain power. However if they encounter something related to what the program is trying to find out, then they are can work wonders.

Spy-Ware
Programs spread through the resurection systems and monitor what a person hears, sees and thinks. It either records the info and then sends it back into the system when the person dies or transmits via psionics or something. Can drive people insane because they feel "As if I'm being watched".

Mal-Ware
A malignant virus that disrupts how a person thinks or acts. Some Mal-Ware reverse their vision so they see everything upside down or backwards, make them unable to speak or hear things, etc..

Pal-Ware
It attempts to shift your alliance towards another faction.

Hear-Ware
The companion of Spy-Ware, Spy-ware broadcasts a persons info while Hear-Ware receives it using psionics. Can cause chaos in an area if everyone can hear eachothers thoughts. Also can drive people insane from "the voices".

Ok, as usual a lot of people have already pointed out some of the things I would comment on, so I'll just limit myself to the usual (been done, before, why don't you look it up in case it inspires you).

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I remember reading a excellent novel a little while ago called Altered Carbon
One interesting aspect of the novel is the concept of sleeves: bodies are just meat and flesh, possibly enhanced/upgraded depending on your finances, but they are a separate thing from your mind. For instance, the hero starts the story "stored" for more than a century as punishment for a crime.
Much like in Demolition Man, the real punishment is not the jail time (being stored as inert data in a secure facility for a period of time) but the sense of complete loss of your bearings when you finally emerge from your sleep, only to be assigned a government issue body (a sleeve)...

Another thing is that death does NOT dissapear. It just becomes a class distinction. Poor people die after a while. Rich people live as long as they can afford it. Filthy rich people live for so long that they forget become a different kind of human being altogether...
in the book, one such filthy rich person employs the hero in figuring out why anyone would try to kill him, knowing that his consciousness is transferred every evening on file, and he has perfect clones ready in case anything would happen (i.e. worst case scenario, he loses 24 hours worth of memories).

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There is a recent roleplaying game using the GURPS system, called Transhuman Space that asks similar questions. What happens to humans when bodies can be altered, when your consciousness can be stored on file, when animals' consciousness can be augmented so that they become as sentient as you and me (remember the dolphin character from Johnny Mnemonic?)
In it, one major aspect of the problems concerning this potential immortality is the political implications. Some countries dont recognise AI or cybershells as people, some do. In some, once your body has been destroyed, you are considered dead. The few pioneers who go through destructive brain scanning (to make a digital copy of your consciousness) thus become non persons in some countries. You can always make a shadow copy, as a backup of sorts, without destroying your body, but it's not as accurate and there might be loss of data in the process. Destructive scanning isnt error proof either...
Death is still very real, even if hunger and diseases are not as relevant as they would have been in the past. As usual, it's personal freedom and quality of life that become much more important.

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I suppose the only problem with those two sources is that they are much more concerned with the ethical problems and the impact on people's mentality, two things that are usually very difficult to translate to a game.

What do you do with your life when you know you might be there for another few centuries? It might be fascinating philosophical stuff, but for a gamer...

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In game terms I think the first obvious thing becomes the separation of mind and matter.
--Your experience, your personality, your knowledge, all that stuff can be stored and restored.
It costs money, it might require some logistics (upon which you could interfere, if this creates interesting gameplay), and policies might change with various jurisdictions.
Copies could vary in quality depending on the hardware used, the conditions (an implanted WiFi chipset transferring to a monitoring network, a regular visit to your local clinic for a backup, or a destructive 99.99% foolproof copy of your brain, with the risk risk of permanent death if something goes wrong). Since it involves technology, things can always go wrong, malicious interference is a possibility. You could hack into the network if somebody is using some remote backup method, you could interfere with the people doing the backup (bribe/blackmail/impersonate an employee at the backup clinic), more or less easily depending on regulations, laws and the security measures involved in the backup process. Even on a destuctive backup, you could always hijack the place, destroy the building while the operation is being done, or something more creative.
--The body becomes no more than a tool. Muscle memory being ... a memory, it might take you some time to adapt to a different body, so you might lose on your physical skills, possibly only temporarily (if you are used to changing bodies regularly). And even if you are not used to it, this wouldn't much of a problem if your new shell is augmented and modified to allow, say, unskilled labor to become proficient at specific tasks (learning to be a skilled factory worker in dangerous environment is just a matter of using a rather functional shell, with some added software so that you acquire the skills needed for the job). Because since your brain is a part of the body, it makes perfect sense to add the concept that skills can be downloadable upgrades.
After all, aiming is just a matter of muscle memory. Enough memories and you become an expert shot...
Again, the only limit is how much money you have, legal considerations, and logistics. Say if your character learnt to use all sorts of weapons and various tools of the warriors trade, then changed his body to something much less physically oriented, that didnt have the same types of upgrades, he might remember how to shoot a gun, but without his enhanced muscles and upgraded nervous system, it wouldn't be much useful. A bit like I am pretty sure I would know how to use a M4 rifle, but I have a feeling I might end up with a broken should if I tried to shoot with one ;)

Anyway, it's all very fascinating, and I think it opens up some really interesting gameplay possibilities. Even if you remove all the interesting moral issues, I dont see why you shouldnt include this.

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Original post by ahw As usual, it's personal freedom and quality of life that become much more important.

To my mind, this is the real purpose of science fiction and I think what could create enduring content. Either you create a killer engine and engage player's love of visuals (Doom3) or you inspire exploration of interesting ideas and dramatic situations. Games haven't really gone as far as I think they could in this realm.

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I suppose the only problem with those two sources is that they are much more concerned with the ethical problems and the impact on people's mentality, two things that are usually very difficult to translate to a game. What do you do with your life when you know you might be there for another few centuries? It might be fascinating philosophical stuff, but for a gamer...

Been working a lot lately on this problem. The key is making the abstract concrete so that it can be put into UI or made visual. I think we're dying for more ethical content, especially as gamers mature.

For the gamer, it has to be a practical, in-game problem to grapple with. Same as with the idea "what becomes of conflict when you can't kill your enemy?" The answer will be defined by the gameplay options and story / world changes you can provide.

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You could hack into the network if somebody is using some remote backup method, you could interfere with the people doing the backup

These are good strategy ideas, but I think you should be immune from them (if you can't save, as I've mentioned in another thread).

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--The body becomes no more than a tool. Muscle memory being ... a memory ...

Take it even beyond muscle memory. What about memory itself. See, I think you could come up with A LOT of very engaging gameplay stories around this. Some fascinating questions: "Who are you?" "What are you, your memories or something else?" "What is love, and can it endure if bodies are just sleeves?"

The absolute GOLDEN question of sci-fi, I think, is "what does it mean to be human?" Of course, the question is meaningless if there's no gameplay to back it up. (I finally have this, I'm happy to report![grin])

AFA muscle memory goes, though, yes. The system I'd like to use reflects this in paying for skills versus training by doing. RNA therapy gives permanent skill boosts, while wetware mods give temporary boosts with this system; or you level the hard way, by doing.

In terms of relearning a new body, I think this is a good basis for a "soul" stat. How fast you adapt reflects your delay in the hospital, which in turn means how long you have to sit things out while your foes make changes in the game world. (All fast-forwarded, of course).

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Original post by Anonymous Poster I've seen some very interesting concepts here, but no one seemed to link them? Since the "souls" of the ennemy can be captured in the Network, and there are "Poltergeist Virii", why not blend the two concepts?

Hmm... I like the blend, and I think it makes sense (wasn't even thinking about cyberwarfare-- duh![wink])

As long as you the player can't die, I'm fine with being able to employ methods to kill off your foes. How about rogue assassin AI and such?

For some reason I think you should fade on the net, though. It helps answer the question, "If eGhosts are so great, why doesn't everyone become one?" But I also think it would be cool if there were some NPCs that somehow HAD found a way to not disintegrate.

Why flesh or a cyborg frame holds you together but not a network of servers is a question I'll have to figure out. Could be that even cyborgs MUST have an organic brain, and things like a Data (Star Trek) are impossible or rare at best (otherwise there should be armies of them).

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On the other hand, would destruction in this psi plane be permanent?

I'd say yes, if you can catch them-- but again, this can't apply to you as the player (you can't lose the game in this design, only suffer losses).

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Moreover, everything here begs for a MASSIVE LOT of plots, quests, and sub-plots and sub-quests... This would mean having a Permanent team of writers attached to the task. Of about 50 or so writers, with twice as much coders, in order to implement them.

Why do you say this? Yes, it DOES imply lots of potential story areas. But look at AD&D. Games don't even BEGIN to scratch the level of detail of the Faerun universe, let alone the alternate worlds like Dark Sun. But would you ever say, "YOU CAN'T MAKE A D&D GAME! The setting begs for...<insert above>"

Remember, you do what you can do, and if players like it, they'll pay you enough to give them more.

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Is the company behind this game willing and able to cope with trials for luring the impressionable youths to starve to death in five-days-on-a-straight game sessions? Or believe they could die at school and get home early enough to watch the new episode of their favourite TV show?

Don't really know what you can do for this. Yes, some people will take this literally, like those who claim to be influenced by GTA. But that becomes a personal responsibility matter, I think.

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Original post by The Shadow Nose Anyway, here are some dangers to add to the network.

Thanks, these are good because they're not fatal, but give more body / dimension to the world. Imagine being on an aggressive super-capitalistic world where ads are integrated into your eGhost based on your social status. Revival is free, but brought to you by a sponsor who is ensured that you'll consume their product. Nasty!!![razz]

Just to throw out an idea here. What if only core keepers had this ability? Not only that but instead of taking over a dead body, or created body. Instead you seized control of the body of someone unfortunate enough to hooked up to the local network at the time.

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Original post by TechnoGoth Just to throw out an idea here. What if only core keepers had this ability? Not only that but instead of taking over a dead body, or created body. Instead you seized control of the body of someone unfortunate enough to hooked up to the local network at the time.

Do you think applying this to society at large is too broad? I do like the idea of bodyjacking as a possibility. Maybe that should be some sort of "soul" stat (haven't figured these out yet).

Since this idea is blending so much with the "no free saves" idea, I was thinking of making it like this:

- NPCs revival is limited to soul-catcher networks (which, btw, would be a mod for starships).

- You and the other Corekeepers (because of the storyline), though, use a more ancient, secret network that's galaxy wide, so you and they can never truly die no matter where you go. (You only learn this by experience or by following the story.)

I think this cuts the world into two sharply contrasted conflicts: NPC enemies who you can kill, and enemies you'll have to somehow assimilate, team up with or neutralize.


If you remember the nemesis idea I floated awhile back, I think the other Corekeepers would make perfect possible nemesis characters. They would also provide the backbone to an evolving, dynamic story because they're characters who can form drama by interacting.

Otherwise, you should have the satisfaction of perma-killing even the toughest (non-Corekeeper) NPCs.

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Original post by Wavinator Quote: Original post by TechnoGoth Just to throw out an idea here. What if only core keepers had this ability? Not only that but instead of taking over a dead body, or created body. Instead you seized control of the body of someone unfortunate enough to hooked up to the local network at the time. Do you think applying this to society at large is too broad? I do like the idea of bodyjacking as a possibility. Maybe that should be some sort of "soul" stat (haven't figured these out yet). Since this idea is blending so much with the "no free saves" idea, I was thinking of making it like this: - NPCs revival is limited to soul-catcher networks (which, btw, would be a mod for starships). - You and the other Corekeepers (because of the storyline), though, use a more ancient, secret network that's galaxy wide, so you and they can never truly die no matter where you go. (You only learn this by experience or by following the story.)

So you could combine this ancient network with bodyjacking. If you die and have to use the secret network (e.g. not good enough soul-catcher coverage in the area) then you have to steal a body. This could have a bunch of (unpleasant) side-effects since it would be quite a shock to the body to be hijacked (and to make sure Corekeepers don't just jump out of spaceships to get where they're going more quickly).

Or are you intending that Corekeepers always use this secret network?

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Original post by lucky_monkey Or are you intending that Corekeepers always use this secret network?

No, I'd like it to be that you don't even know about the whole Corekeeper thing at first. It's supposed to be optional. If you keep accepting "story hooks" then this reveals the story, makes you aware of the CKs, and starts them taking interest in you. Otherwise, you can do your own thing.

So yes, you'd start up in a utopia like environment, and you'd be on the normal network. Every once in awhile, when you restored, story hooks would start with a doctor or someone commenting ("that's odd, your pattern seems to have a few anomalies... mind if I run some tests?")

If you died in a non-network area, the NPCs would comment how strange it was or lucky you were. Same for dying in deep space with no coverage. You somehow keep living, and if you want to know why, you've got to pursue the story.

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Original post by Wavinator Do you think applying this to society at large is too broad? I do like the idea of bodyjacking as a possibility. Maybe that should be some sort of "soul" stat (haven't figured these out yet).

I do, I think it creates an unintersting society where organic life becomes essentially pointless since you can mostly achomplish things more efficiently in quantum state or moves to a point of perptualy self indulgince. Think about it, you have a society where every one is essentailly immortal, where if your injuried or simply unhappy with your physical appearence you can just jump into a new body. So what motives people? When people no longer have to worry about dying then all physical risks becomes meaningless. Many people might even wonder what the point in even mainting a phyiscal body is, when they could remove the hassle by moving into a purely quantum state. You'd probably end up with negative population growth.

I think by making the body jumping an aspect of the core keepers it would work far better for what you are trying to achive and be a better tie in for the nemisis idea. Since the corekeepers become the only real foes in the game, you can't defeat them through physical injury and they will always be there working in the background unless you can devise a more lasting solution to the problem. By contrast even the most dangerous regular NPC will seem insignificant because they existance is only fleeting.

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No, I'd like it to be that you don't even know about the whole Corekeeper thing at first. It's supposed to be optional. If you keep accepting "story hooks" then this reveals the story, makes you aware of the CKs, and starts them taking interest in you. Otherwise, you can do your own thing.

Thats fine, but I think the first real clue that player is diffrent from others is after their first death when they jump into a new body.

By the way this would be the perfect place insert a mini-game. I picture something along the idea of rapidly traveling through the quantum connection lines, trying to adjust various alignment paramenters to find the host most similar to your needs and ideal form.