capn
i know that is asking for a lot if going for "realistic simulations of global weather systems". thats not what i am intending at all. im just talking about the theory behind it. you can always take really complicated things and just kind of "fake them". it is still a just a game remember.

-Luxury

Nice try Niphty, but I''m not Landfish - no gold star for you!

It seems that we''re talking about two different things. The first is expanding the effects of the spells to match their names. A spell that created a real hurricane would not generally be a good one, and a real huricane would do a lot more than knock over an orc fort. We''re talking about damage to all of the local crops, plan life, setttlements, etc.

The other idea is that given the current game use of the spell effect (a short time span, limited area) it would be reasonable to have the spell affect more than just the monsters on the screen.

Am I the only one who was playing Diablo II and wanted armor made out of whatever the trees and grass were made out of? They were indestructable. They wouldn''t burn, or freeze, or blow over.

Re: the graphics problem - the only way to handle it would be to use tiled graphics. I think Age of Wonders let you do some of this, one of their units had a ''frost walk'' that replaced the tiles with snow and ice covered ones as it passed. I agree, pre-painted backgrounds would not work.

Finally, if you''re going to present a world as a more complete experience rather than a dressed up arcade game, I like the idea of having useful, practical magic and skills in addition to the monster bashing ones. If I can burn a monster then I should be able to burn a wooden box.

This would be cool, but it won''t work.

Why?

Two words:

Grief players.

Sorry, could you elaborate?

I think he means people that play just to get on other peoples nerves, like those that constantly PK. Basically you would have people running around, casting this magic just so that it inconviniences other people. BUT, this adds a new element to the game, an evil wizard that will not let you pass. So, you must find some way to please him so that you can get by. Even then, you want to watch your back in case he tries to double cross you. I think that even this possibility would be good, adds to gameplay and such.

Are you even trying to be intelligent?
'cuz if you are, it ain't workin'

Woah, this is a completely different topic if we are talking about online consistent-world MMORPG''s. The consequences are mind-boggling.

But first, as for weather effects, we do not need accurate predictions of weather conditions. We aren''t trying to predict the weather. We want to show something that is plausible. So long as our weather effects could happen in given circumstances, not that they necessarily would. Unless all your players are meteorologists, they will not know the difference.

Now, as for graphics, not everything can/will be affected by the hurricane (or whatever). We cannot show every rock and stone being thrown about, but if we only change a few things, say trees, even if the trees were the only things that changed, it would be good.

As for grief players, they will exist in any MORPG, unless you don''t allow the players to interact with eachother, in which case you game isn''t online. Anyways, most grief players create throwaway characters, they don''t expend any effort in them, because they often get kicked off, killed or they lose interest. As I was saying earlier, you just wouldn''t allow characters this kind of power so soon. Only allow characters to summon hurricanes (for god''s sake we''re talking about hurricanes) when they are very advanced. Any player who has put so much effort into a character probably enjoys the game, will not want to piss people off intentionally, especially the game moderators.

I am so glad that Landfish is finally getting the respect he deserves.

The ability to be able to alter the world in a catastrophic way is well within current programming ability. Anyone else here burn down entire forests in magic carpet 1 and 2? how about throwing a spell to raise a volcano in the lst populus game? or in Black and White, where vast expanses of land (controlled by you or some other diety) looks differently based on what kind of God you, the player, become? It takes very little to change these current systems to make monstrous effects that alter the look and feel of a majority of the game world, but most developers don''t include it in their designs.

But then, all of the aformentioned games have this to some degree, and they all bear the mark of Peter Molyneux''s influence... hmmm.

Consider yourself blessed.

ok..i think that we kind of need to get away from the mmorpg''s for right now. at least for something like what we are discusing here. although it would be pretty cool...i think that you wouldnt let the average player ever reach this level of power. and if so, then only a handful of dedicated players.

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Original post by Anonymous Poster

Finally, if you''re going to present a world as a more complete experience rather than a dressed up arcade game, I like the idea of having useful, practical magic and skills in addition to the monster bashing ones. If I can burn a monster then I should be able to burn a wooden box.

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i agree.

We at Rouge are trying to do something like that......

Dynamic worlds.

These are no new concept even if you guys ever has played any. Games I can come up with:

* The X-COM games I-III.
* Dungeon Keeper
* The rogue like games like already mentioned.
* Gauntlet style games.

Gauntlet is actually way old (start of the eighties).

My favorite is X-COM here grenates could blow up everything including walls and furniture and house would fall down if you removed the foundation. This was really great.

The problem is that to allow this the world have to be very modular, so a piece of a wall can go away. I have only seen it with tiled games, and if you can live with tiles then it is absolutely reaslistic. It is unreasable to expect draw games like Baldur''s Gate to take environment into account.

The speed of 3D games like UT and Quake III comes from the fact that the scenery is static so the rendering and lighting can be calculated before the game begins. Making everything dynamic slows things down and most developers do not dare sacrifice speed or grphics quality to make things dynamic.

Jacob Marner