I'm making a small 3rd person shooter like GTA , way smaller of course , and i have a legal question : May i use other brands in my VR world like , Mcdonalds ; Coke ;Ford etc for my cars ; restoraunts ; supermarket etc. It's not gonna like i gonna hit the shelves but i could make some money from a local sponsor and i don't wanna legal problems. Could somebody advise ?

Change the names, like Mc Ronalds and Poke-a-Cola .. People will tell you to go see a lawyer but I think you can figure out that if you wan't to use big names in your game your going to have to pay. If your game is that small I personally wouldn't worry, I think those companies have better things to do than to take legal action against one man amateur games that make no money.

To follow the letter of the law, you probably do need a licence to use their names and logos.

In reality, you're probably safe if it's a small-time indie game. Big companies will destroy you if:
- you're seen to be making money out of their name (and not paying them their fair share)
- you're seen to be damaging their name or using it in a way they dont like

I'm sure if you had a McD's in your world you'd be fine. But if you had a billboard saying "McD's is terrible, dont buy it" (or a game mechanic that killed the player with food poisoning if they went in) they'd probably not take too kindly to you [wink]

Jack

You can try and convince them to advertise in your game. Not only you will not have any legal problems you will make some extra $$$.

Quote:
A game mechanic that killed the player with food poisoning if they went in.

An excellent way to add a bit of realism to the game.

Quote: Original post by thegamedesigner
I'm making a small 3rd person shooter like GTA , way smaller of course ,
and i have a legal question :
May i use other brands in my VR world like , Mcdonalds ; Coke ;Ford etc for my cars ; restoraunts ; supermarket etc.
It's not gonna like i gonna hit the shelves but i could make some money
from a local sponsor and i don't wanna legal problems.

Could somebody advise ?

In general, you can't use a registered name or trademark in a work without permission, except in reference to facts, opinions, for descriptive purposes, or satire. For instance, saying "Brand XYZ of Corporation Foobar sold 452,000 units last year." is fine; you're just presenting a statement meant to be accepted as fact about Brand XYZ. If you present something as fact that isn't actually true and you do it with the intent of damaging the reputation of Brand XYZ, you are open to libel or slander, but it's not per se illegal.

Saying, for instance, "I don't think anyone should buy Windows XP; it's an awful product and it makes my eyes hurt" is clearly your opinion and not meant to be taken as fact. On the other hand, "the use of Windows XP increases suicide rates among computer users by 20%" is meant as a statement of fact, whether or not it's actually true.

Subtly modifying a company's trademark or logo so that it's mostly the same thing is a no-no. It needs to be "clearly distinguishable" to be legitimate; that is, changing "McDonald's" to "McRonald's" is not a good idea, especially since "Ronald McDonald" is a trademark of McDonald's, and since there's only a one-letter difference. It's also even more touchy if you keep the same color/font/shape/text size.

In reality, a mega-corporation is unlikely to spend effort pursuing any action against you for a product you don't profit from (they have no damages to recover), unless you're being egregiously libelous or slanderous against them. For instance, making a Flash game called "Coker-Cola" insinuating that the production of Coca-Cola involves kidnapping babies from hospital wards, injecting them with crack, and then throwing them into a meat grinder for "that delicious, refreshing taste" would probably be a bit much.

Most legal systems have a very high standard of proof for such cases, though, and it's very difficult to prove that a work is intended to be serious and not sarcastic parody/satire. You can always use that as a defense if you're ultimately cornered. Unless you've written incriminating documents that put your intentions down in writing, it's next to impossible to prove that a work is not satire.

I'd put this in the business forum.

Quote: Original post by Ravuya
I'd put this in the business forum.

Agreed.

The way i understand your replies it's illegal to use it without their written permission right?
I hate modifying names and don't believe that someone from coca-cola or Wal Mart will like to speak brand issues wtih me.
So i just gonna ask the local folks i know perconally like from Mcdonalds, Mr Smith the local GM dealer , ...
About the rest who cares , i only gonna ,make a few grands so suing me for profit is not terrify me at all.
If some of the future iterations of my game makes millions i would be delighted to give some % to Brand owners .
Btw i'm still a minor so that could help me in the court.
Could it ?

Okay first - they won't sue you just for profit, they'll attempt to collect damages. It won't matter how little you make off the game, if they can prove you've illegally used their trademarks you can be fined anything from several thousand dollars on up.

As a minor, it's even worse for you - because the liability then falls on your parents/guardians. So your act of defiance could end up costing your folks their house, not to mention liens on their salaries to pay for your court judgement and the fees your attorney will end up charging you to defend you.

Now this is just me pointing out a worse-case scenario, but well within the realm of possibility. Don't think that because you're a minor you're outside the law; what you do has repurcussions on others.

Separate issue: you can't get permission from your local McDonalds or GM dealer to use those trademarks in your game. These people own franchises, not the company - they have no rights to the trademarks of the company, they only have permission to use them in specific context.

You can't work around it by putting your local GM dealership in the game instead of GM; why? Because you're still using the GM logo, presumably. "Dan's Auto Dealer" only owns the trademark "Dan's Auto Dealer"; they have an arrangement with General Motors to market GM cars, and to display the GM trademarks in their store.

They can't transfer that permission to you. So while you be able to put a Dan's Auto in the game with their permission, you'd still need to go to General Motors to get their permission for the GM logo.

Clear?

Quote: Original post by thegamedesigner
So i just gonna ask the local folks i know perconally like from Mcdonalds, Mr Smith the local GM dealer , ...

These people wont have the power to grant you permission to use the brand - they are either low in the management chain or possibly just franchise owners who have no ownership/control of the brand. Talking to them would be pointless except to ask who you should talk to at head-office.

Quote: About the rest who cares , i only gonna ,make a few grands so suing me for profit is not terrify me at all.
If some of the future iterations of my game makes millions i would be delighted to give some % to Brand owners .

It wont be a case of just giving them a %. This is infringement of a registered trademark and as such they can sue you in federal court and very quickly get the court to force you to stop distributing your game. When they do this you (or rather your parents) will have to get a lawyer and that will be very expensive - it will easily be more than 100% of the money you earned. You may not be worried about someone suing you but you might want to consider what your parents will do when you cost them thousands of dollars in legal fees.

Quote: Btw i'm still a minor so that could help me in the court.
Could it ?

It will help you, it wont help your parents.

The law vs reality
The above is the law - you can't use trademarks, if you do they can shut you down and sue you - if they do your parents will have to pay the bill.

The reality is that what will actually happen is this....
Your game wont be great so no one will notice
But, if they do, the company will send a cease and desist letter, telling you to stop using their trademark. If you immediately stop you will be wok.
If you don't stop that is when the problems realy start. The next stage will be legal action and your parents will be involved (as they will likely have to pay the bills).

[Edited by - Obscure on December 21, 2004 1:58:54 PM]