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Is GLUT truely evil?

Started by October 15, 2000 09:01 PM
30 comments, last by The Rainmaker 24 years, 3 months ago
My 2 cents:

GLUT is a real cheap way out. It''s like saying you can progam in Win32 when all you can do is make buttons with MFC. Besides, how many commercial games do you see that use GLUT?
Hm...
Uh huh...
yup...
That brings the grand total to ZERO!


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Blue*Omega

(Insert Witty Quote Here)
// Tojiart
quote:
Original post by Blue*Omega

My 2 cents:

GLUT is a real cheap way out. It''s like saying you can progam in Win32 when all you can do is make buttons with MFC. Besides, how many commercial games do you see that use GLUT?
Hm...
Uh huh...
yup...
That brings the grand total to ZERO!



Quite frankly, so what? The whole point of GLUT (as has been pointed out) is to avoid having to learn Win32 (or any other specific API) to do something interesting with OpenGL. The learning overhead of GLUT is really low; you''d have to be pretty thick to not be able to learn everything you need in a single day, so it''s not like you''re wasting a bunch of time learning GLUT.

GLUT is just a tool, and like any tool, it can''t be used in every situation. Who cares that it isn''t really suitable for games? It was never intended to be used in games (despite the fact that it contains a few game-specific functions).

Whether or not someone uses GLUT to learn OpenGL is a personal decision, but there is certainly no reason to bash GLUT or anyone who chooses to use it. If you choose to use WGL (or GLX or AGL or whatever), that''s fine too. I personally appreciated the fact that during my graphics classes, I could develop and test my OpenGL/GLUT programs on my Windows machine at home, and then, when it came time to submit the assignment, compile it on UNIX without a single change to the code.
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i challenge anyone knocking glut here to show me what exactlly they''ve done with opengl without using glut. i could use a laugh naw im serious

ill post me last post again
FUD "beginers use glut"
i would say that the average skill of the ppl that use glut is far higher than those that use straight win32 , at least thats my impression of use over the years
a couple of programs that use glut
www.blender.nl (one of the best 3d modelling programs around)
http://www.planetquake.com/aftershock/ ( copy of quake3 )

glut is a tool to be used as such if it can save u time effort why not use it.

http://members.xoom.com/myBollux
Blue*Omega did you not read all of the stuff that was said above? Maybe if you did you would see how clueless your post is.

Nate Miller
http://nate.scuzzy.net
Heh, I am really sorry I haven''t contributed after I put the post, but somehow I forgot I posted!

I am happy my topic got such a response, but of course it is such a huge topic it shouldn''t be a surprise. I agree with both sides in many ways. If I had started out learning OpenGL with GLUT, I would probably have gotten better at OGL much faster. On the other hand, I never would have been forced to learn Win32 programming extensively, and now I am more advanced in that area.

It is good to know that you can take out the console, but what good is that ability if noone uses it? I have had too many demos released that had the console left in, which is too ugly to keep in a final project. That equalizes itself.

Saying that no games use GLUT brings me back around to the first point in this post. As we have been told it is for beginners, and obviously is NOT acceptable for more advanced methods. The problem is that people become attached to the simplicity, and are too lazy to truely code the win32. Thus, advanced demos are released that still use beginner code. I also want to say again that if you are never forced to learn win32, you will have a harder time getting up to par- learning OpenGL with win32 is sort of a double whammy. It is harder, but in the end you have learned 2 very advanced methods that you will use for years to come.

As far as portability goes, I must say glut wins that one- but not as gracefully as liked. It works on any platform, a wonderful plus, but it requires you to download the dlls. That is an ugly draw back. If the downloader knows what glut is, then they will usually have a bad first impression- it is beginners code. Also, extra downloads suck.

It all truely boils down to what you prefer. Either way you will get by, but I have to say Win32 is the better choice.

And can we post without slamming eachother- Nate, and others? Let''s be mature about it

L8r,
The Rainmaker
Biendschmofan''s Tutorials Of OpenGL Glander
L8r,[email=richardfrazee@msn.com]The Rainmaker[/email]Biendschmofan''s Tutorials Of OpenGL Glander
Why can nobody on the planet tell the difference between win32 console and DOS ? VC++ can''t even compile for DOS ! And when you make a console style main() app, don''t wonder when you get a console style window.

glut ist not well suited for advanced stuff. It is just to simple. There is a reason why people use win32, it''s 1000x more powerful. I never saw a reason for using glut. I just wrote a few nice classe and done.


Tim

--------------------------
glvelocity.gamedev.net
www.gamedev.net/hosted/glvelocity
Tim--------------------------glvelocity.gamedev.netwww.gamedev.net/hosted/glvelocity
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do i have to repeat my post a third time
prolly not cause its obvious ppl dont read it


Edited by - zedzeek on October 19, 2000 5:46:44 AM
I hate to continue a holy way here, but you guys arguing about windows being better obviously only program in windows.

Your view of the world is that of a young adolescent. There are many systems that run OpenGL. In fact, the PC market is a newcomer to the 3d graphics world.

I''ve written GL & OpenGL code (in chronological order)

Personal IRIS (1992)
Indigo (1992)
Onyx REII (1993-95)
Indigo II Xtreme (1993-94)
Linux + my own miniGL layer on top of SVGALIB (1994-95)
Linux + Mesa (1998)
Linux + Nvidia OpenGL GeGorce GTS (2000)
Windows98 + Nvidia GeForce GTS (2000)

I use GLUT.

Now. Would you like to argue my experience?

Or what _is_ your point?

--
- Aaron
Hey! I''m trying!
i wasn''t really arguing about the merits or demerits of glut but more of the statement "glut is for beginners"
which is likely to harm newbies development eg "i dont wanna appear as a newbie so i won''t use glut OR ill get better results if i stick to the os''s API"
as anyone who''s being doing opengl for a while + had a decent look around on the net will see that a very high percentage of the professional opengl ppl use glut all the time.

ok thats me last post on the subject

http://members.xoom.com/myBollux
Nice to see lots of people getting active on this thread!

One of the first impressions i was *worried* about was the fact that NeHe''s kick ass tutorials are mainly situated around the Win32API.

Like he said above, that was his choice, done on purpose, so -WE- the students will get a ~deeper~ (i hope that is the correct description here) of workings of OpenGL.

One of the things i''ve been trying to find is tutorials that offer portability.

GLUT seems to be the current answer.

I''m still unsure wether this is good or not, based upon the current thread.

So then i started thinking, can it be coded so that the computer says (at compile time), hmm. what am I? Windows? Linux? Then compiles...

Hmm .. that is confussing. OK. Let me explain. I''ve been programming with C for 5 years now, working on a internet MUD (a silly multiplayer net game, with wizards, dragons, etc .. ya classic Dungeons and Dragons thingy) and the base code released for this mud is ported for nearly ALL platforms avaiable. The use of specific files -> eg. config.win config.linux, etc... makes the code COMPILE for the ported machine.

Why not do lesson 1 for a glut / win32api?

I''d say NO becuase of wasted overhead in the code, etc....

But i know very little about OpenGL.


Maybe someone can answer the question for me and say this ..

Lesson1_ANYPORT that does not use GLUT, does not use Win32API, but only the OpenGL code in it''s basic rough form, and, like TCS said somewhere (though relating to Win32API), coded into classes, and opens a window / full screen blank ~window~.

And this Lesson1_ANYPORT can compile on all machines, AS OPPOSED TO THE CURRENT list of a dozen+ DIFFERENT coded downloads.


But then again, i''m tired and delirious, and the worlds beggest newbie twinx, and i know NOTHING about opengl and what it can / cannot do ..... so maybe this is totally impossible.

Please do not flame me too much.

-PK da twinx-
-PK-

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