Hmm.. this brings to mind the idea of giving more control of the universe over to the players. There are a wide variety of Groups/Clans/Outfits within many gaming communities, so why not allow the players to create their Own Corporations?

As Taolung has pointed out, when a corporation gets near defeat, they are less likely to be able to shell out hard cash and are close to defeat. This might lead to one large corporation being destroyed and impacting the overall gameworld.

However, if players were to create their own corporations, then we would see a rather unique world grow and develope off its own economy, a dynamically shifting ingame world run by the players themselves, with corporations and organizations being created and destroyed everyday. CP in this instance might represent neighborhoods, or plots of land within the game universe that can either be fought over and won though contracts or economics.

I find this kind of conceptual world very interesting, since it can help give rise to Clan organization in a meaningful way, and help perpetuate a breathing world with its own evolving economic model without the need to create one artificially. Similiar economics exist in Second-Life, but without obvious forms of conflict.

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Hmm.. this brings to mind the idea of giving more control of the universe over to the players. There are a wide variety of Groups/Clans/Outfits within many gaming communities, so why not allow the players to create their Own Corporations?

Two reasons why I think this is a bad idea for a shadowrun game.

1. It breaks with the idea of shadowrun IMO. Players are meant to be shadowrunners, not corporate suits. The game could allow for players to legitimately work for a corporation, but running one is more of a sim-type game and doesn't fit well with the shadowrun universe of big-brother mega-corporations.

2. I've yet to see a game where a 100% run player economy works very well. It does decent in Shadowbane, but its a complete failure in Starwars.

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1. It breaks with the idea of shadowrun IMO. Players are meant to be shadowrunners, not corporate suits. The game could allow for players to legitimately work for a corporation, but running one is more of a sim-type game and doesn't fit well with the shadowrun universe of big-brother mega-corporations.

I feel that allowing the player the opportunity to be a 'corporate suit' would allow them to explore different playstyles, as well as be able to experience greater Strategic gameplay within the game. But its true that it might errode the concept of the larger Mega-Corporations.

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2. I've yet to see a game where a 100% run player economy works very well. It does decent in Shadowbane, but its a complete failure in Starwars.

There are games out there with stable economies, to give you a few examples which you can have a look at: www.eve-online.com, www.secondlife.com.

Being a Mr. Johnson has a nice ring to it. :D

hmm... Paying less money to a mercenary for a potentially more dangerous job wouldn't go over very well, but paying more money to fewer more skilled mercs may work. This may fit into the overall record of success with experienced players. Players who are all to uber and have a high level of skill and experience would then potentially get paid 'the big bucks' from corporations in duress wanting to hire a professional to make their problems go away. Not to mention the challenge this would present to the more experienced players to keep them interested.

So instead of hiring 5-6 players for 2000$ each, they may pay 1 or 2 players 4000$ each, or 1-3 players for 3000$ each (less money overall, but the players would be more experienced based of their records).

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If the company is in dire need wouldn't they want better odds?

This all fits into Economics. Lets say Saeder Krupp controls 35 Control Points (or 35 lots of land), hiring two guys to manage all this territory just isn't going to work, they can't be everywhere at once. So he hires a bunch of people at a reduced salary (5-6 people 2000$ each), to help patrol his territory, since his budget is filled with having to pay for lots of people, its more economical to send some of them off to do jobs in order to gain more CP(Lots).

Now, Renraku controls 3 CP(lots), and is starting to really feel the financial hurt. They need more territory, but since they don't control much, they don't need to hire many people to patrol their territory, they just need to focus on getting more. *Few people will take these missions though, since their much more dangerous than average missions. There's little insentive for them to work for Renraku for less cash, than say his compeditor, Saeder Krupp. So Renraku jacks up the payment in a bit to attract people who are willing to try the odds for the extra payment.*

Now you don't have to allow just experienced players to take the jobs, now that i think about it that wouldn't be quite fair and may indeed lead to imbalance. They can be for anyone who just wants the big cash payoff, or to make a name for themselvse, or just for the XP it offers. The motivation and increased performance is based on the players desire for that cash. Its all payment on delivery however, so if the player failed, the company doesn't lose anything. This can help the company stay afloat until some players succeed in one of their missions and get the wad of cash.

To this end, the payoff is parrallel to the difficulty, More Danger = More Cash/XP, which will undoubtledly attract people looking for quick cash, or higher reputation. After a few successful missions, Renraku will have gained enough CP(lots) back to start getting more cash flow happening, and their contracts will offer less money to more people to help maintain and patrol their newly acquired territory.

Some thoughts also occured to me, that certain companies may have different Policies, be they immoral, or ethical, which could add some interesting twists.

As well, the idea of Forced Missions came to mind as a way to help get missions done. Lets say Renraku is in financial straights and they can't afford a group of mercs, so they hire a Hacker to mess with a players financial records, and seize all his assets. They then give that player an ultimatum of "Do us a little favor and you'll get your stuff back".

Or if the company is more ruthless, then they may choose to implant a bomb into a player getting Cybernetic Implants surgically installed. They can then offer him the option of either doing a few jobs for them, or setting it off (with no assurance that they may just do it anyway, or may keep holding it over his head. The player may of course try to find another doctor to have it removed).

These wouldn't happen very often, but gives a new level of political movements and manipulations within the game (not to mention motivate the player to do more high paying jobs if they need quick cash to pay off Mr. Mobster). It can also be an option that they may only happen on CP(lots) controlled by that mega-corporation.

[Edited by - Gyrthok on November 25, 2004 8:24:32 PM]

CP doesn't necisarrily reflect lots controlled by the corporation, more their influence in the city. On top of that The shadowrunners wouldn't be patrolling thier land, but doing some mission against another company. I know you were using it as an example, but I was un able to relate that example to shadowrun.

Hmmm.. From what i understand of the Shadowrun universe, Money and Power are absolutes. Large Mega-Corporations use their Financial power and influence with the people in the city (its businesses, companies and other places) to maintain their holds. Often coercing one or the other for a way to gain more ground against the other Mega-Corporations, or simply to get their way.

So what i mean by 'patrolling' is that they hire people to maintain the image of the company at its current level, either by making the company look good (simple missions of deliver money to Orphanage A, without getting shot to pieces in Ghetto B) or by making another company look bad (put on enemy companies uniform A, and gun down people in mall with Uzi-B, don't get caught/killed by Police-C).

One Mega-Corporation only has to make another Mega-Corp look bad for them to impact their stock's and company image, reducing their influence in the market. The more groups a company hires, the more they can slander and effect another companies image through various moves. This fits into the hiring of 5-6 people for 2000$ apiece kind of missions.

Now if a companies stocks are down low because of bad publicity, then they might have to hire someone to find out who's really responsible (or to fabricate data to save face for the company). This fits into the hiring 1 or 2 people for 3-4000$, both to attract them and keep their mouths shut so as not to backlash the companies image. Such complicated jobs might include hacking a companies database and manipulating TestData of a new product to make it look like the projects a complete failure and someone(fallguy?) have been embezzling the stockholders money. Or breaking into a corporation looking for financial records, to hunting down and beating/bribing the people who actually did the jobs.

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Original post by robert4818 CP doesn't necisarrily reflect lots controlled by the corporation, more their influence in the city. On top of that The shadowrunners wouldn't be patrolling thier land, but doing some mission against another company. I know you were using it as an example, but I was un able to relate that example to shadowrun.

Administrating players could work too. I think that's an interesting idea, hiring players to do some of the internal stuff. It violates one or two of Falstein's rules (hide game mechanics from players), but I think it's a good idea.

Gythok,

You missed some of the MAJOR shadowruns.

Stealing- (We want that new prototype that company C is making for ourselves)
Destruction- (We want to get back at Company C for what they did to us...go destroy facility D)
Sabotage- (We don't want Product E entering the market make sure that doesn't happen)
Industrial Espionage
Extraction- (Scientist F has just "decided" to switch companies)
Wetwork- (Scientist F doesn't want to work with us...take him out)

Yes, those are some excelent examples of shadowrun missions, its been awhile since i've played around in Cyberpunk theme's, and i never had much experience with the Shadowrun universe other than the SNES version (which i really enjoyed dispite its unusual implementation relative to the Pencil and Paper version). I've based my examples off of corporate business practices, but there's some room for some really cool stories and plots to develope.

Eitherway, it would be really cool to see someone make more Shadowrun games. :D