Quote: DON'T HAVE ANY KIDS!!!

Nope. Wrong.

Do you have any idea how much a kid fetches on the black market these days!? Pop one out every nine months and sell them for $100,000 a piece (interpret that anyway you please [grin]).

Quote: Original post by Obscure

Quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster
if you grow a thick coat of fur you don't have to pay for heating and you can have sex with dogs

I think this thread just went to a small dark place full scary, pointy, sharp things. :0

Yeah, and it's not economical either, with all the medical/legal expenses you'll probably need afterwards. In short, don't grow any fur.

shmoove

Quote: Original post by slaction
Two people working can afford to raise 4 kids because of things like tax breaks and food stamps.

While having a studio would be nice, I don't think its worth of the trade off of 10-15 years of your life.

Not 10-15 years of your life lived in poverty and no fun. Just those years not spent financing children!

Quote: But you should also realize that nothing on planet earth equals the feeling of holding your own baby that is looking at you, smiling, giggling and loving you. No gamedev`ing can ever come even 1% close to this feeling, believe me.

I`m not asking you to understand this. I did understand this when I experienced it and I`m telling you, it`s worth it!

BTW, how come it`s not in the lounge ?

Only for some people. It's not that my programming love is so amazingly gigantic, but that babies seem unappealing in pretty much every way - the stress of enduring your wife's pregnancy, the lack of sleep, the lack of privacy in your own home, people hating you when your stupid kid cries all through dinner when you eat out (why are there no baby-free restaurants), the constant fear they may get ill or die (like a pet only more so)... and these are the emotional reasons quite apart from being much worse off. If it was just the money I wouldn't care because as long as you have food and a roof you're ok IMO.

Quote: Original post by d000hg
Only for some people.

Maybe even for you, but you can`t say until you experience it, because it`s different with your own child (assuming you want it, of course).

Quote: Original post by d000hg
the stress of enduring your wife's pregnancy

Ha, first of all she`s got to be pregnant, and it`s not that easy these days as you might think. When you or your wife is over 25, it`s getting harder to get pregnant. I can see it all around with all of my friends of this age that it takes them anywhere between 1-4 yrs to have a baby even though they try as much as possible and are totally healthy otherwise.
"Endure" ? Well man, you better think of other alternatives, because it`s not just getting pregnant, she`s got to stay alive/pregnant until the baby is ready to be born and again, it`s rare these days to see any pregnant woman with non-risk pregnancy. What are you going to do when your doctor tells you in 5th month of pregnancy that probably within a week you may have to decide whether it`s her who`s gonna live or the baby ? It`s not just "enduring" your wife`s pregnancy !

Quote: Original post by d000hg
the lack of sleep

If you`re a game programmer, it shouldn`t be an issue whatsoever, because you are probably used to sleeping less b/o of nightly programming. In fact, I sleep much more now that we have a baby, although that`s because I dropped nightly programming altogether. Only people who are used to sleeping 8 hrs or more are tired because of lack of sleep. As soon as our son was born (and I started to sleep more than 4 hrs a day b/o no nightly programming), I slept much better. True, you awake like 5-15 times each night, but that`s not that bad as it may seem. And after first year you awake only about 2-3 times each night (depends on baby though), so it`s totally OK.

Quote: Original post by d000hg
the lack of privacy in your own home

You have to sacrifice something so that you can have a baby and lead a normal way of life where there is something else left after you other than few lines in some company`s HR department`s files. Don`t forget, you`re easilly replacable.

Quote: Original post by d000hg
people hating you when your stupid kid cries all through dinner when you eat out (why are there no baby-free restaurants)

Just ignore it. You have the same right to eat in restaurant as they have. Besides if somebody is stupid enough to complain, just ask them if they were raised in Antarctica and never been in restaurant with their parents when they were small. Or just ask them if they were born as adults, already taught how to behave in public places.

Quote: Original post by d000hg
the constant fear they may get ill or die (like a pet only more so)

You hit the nail, man and you don`t even seem to know it other than from other people`s experience. This is single biggest emotional problematic issue each time your baby has high temperatures/is ill. Unless, of course you are an asshole and don`t care for the baby in which case you better don`t have any.

Quote: Original post by d000hg
If it was just the money I wouldn't care because as long as you have food and a roof you're ok IMO.

WRONG. The small baby easilly consumes MUCH more than you each month (from financial standpoint) - this is my case actually, unless of course you eat in restaurant each day. It`s not just food, you have to buy new clothes every now and then. Diapers cost earth, then until the baby is about one year old, you rarely give them same clothes 3-5 times, because it grows daily so even though it`s big the first time it wears them, within a week or two, it may well be already small (mainly until first 6 months).
Now if your wife becomes ill and the baby is still small (around 1 yr), you have to pay for babysitting because someone`s got to work. So the expenses are quite high. And I didn`t even mention all the stuff you need to buy before the baby is born, like little bed,baby-trolley,.... Easily thousands of dollars before the baby is even born.
Yeah, I forgot, you probably don`t want to have a baby and not being able to pay for savings insurance (or what is it actually called) each month, so that your baby can go to university as soon as it reaches the relevant age and have a necessary amount already saved on its account to pay for education (partly at least).

Either way, I see you as being almost emotionally prepared for having a baby. You might not notice that, because you have plenty of rational arguments against having a baby. But based on the tone of your arguments you`re just one little step of making that decision of affording that your own "development studio" where you`ll "develop" the greatest miracle of all...

Well, fact is I just don't like kids and babies in particular so I hope I don't have any.
And I think it's fair to be annoyed by people bringing noisy children to nice resaurants, the theatre etc. Babies can't be forced to be quiet and many parents are bad at it. If you can't smoke or shout drunkenly in a restaurant because of the possible annoyance to others, the same should apply to uncontrollable children - take them somewhere full of kids and leave some places quiet. Like the couple who took their baby to the Indian restaurant with them - hardly a suitable place for it!

(this probably should be in the Lounge by now)

Well, of course, in case of restaurants, some general rationale applies to parents as well. For example, if I know they won`t eat there, and therefore be mostly quiet because of eating, I won`t take them there (e.g. Indian cuisine). Another issue is when kids shout and parents don`t do anything at all. That`s just bad and this is the case where others should step in and remind them. When I talked about this in my last post I meant the case when kids only occasionally raise their voice (not every minute, of course). As for cinemas, that`s why they have special screening times for kids, when noone else usually goes to cinema.
This is the case when you should take them to McDonald`s for Baby Meal, which is one of the places where it`s quite common to hear kids yell and probably nobody expects this place to be kid-free.

Quote: (this probably should be in the Lounge by now)

C`mon! Give moderator some time ;) !

Well, of course, in case of restaurants, some general rationale applies to parents as well. For example, if I know they won`t eat there, and therefore be mostly quiet because of eating, I won`t take them there (e.g. Indian cuisine). Another issue is when kids shout and parents don`t do anything at all. That`s just bad and this is the case where others should step in and remind them. When I talked about this in my last post I meant the case when kids only occasionally raise their voice (not every minute, of course). As for cinemas, that`s why they have special screening times for kids, when noone else usually goes to cinema.
This is the case when you should take them to McDonald`s for Baby Meal, which is one of the places where it`s quite common to hear kids yell and probably nobody expects this place to be kid-free.

Quote: (this probably should be in the Lounge by now)

C`mon! Give moderator some time ;) !

Dooohg - It's easy to see your a male of the species :-)

Most men (me included) have the same point of view. Kids seem nothing more than hassle and expense. Fortunately for the human race to continue the females are programmed very differently. If you're like me, deciding to have a baby will be one of those strange mutual agreements where you never actually remember agreeing- In other words you'll pretty much be told when the time is right for you as a couple to produce the first offspring. When that time comes you'll deal with at as man kind has been dealing with it for thousands of years. You'll also lose your cold outlook and emotionally melt like a woman at times.

Plus you'll also realise the true concept of "other peoples kids" (ie. there's nothing more annoying than..) You've only got a one sided view at the moment because all kids to you are "other peoples".

I've got friends of my age (early thirties) with no kids and loads of disposable income. Do I envy them? Sometimes ;-)

- Matt

One more thing.. they're not all expenditure either-- I regularly use mine as in-house play-testers :)