I am wondering how a demo would be distributed to potential publishers for a game based on an engine that has not yet been licensed. You can have the demo fully developed but not be able to actually distribute the engine’s exe because you don’t have the money to buy a license yet. Catch 22: You can’t send out the demo for the publisher to see because you don’t have a license to distribute the engine. But you can’t buy the license without the funding from the publisher. How do developers that produce titles on big name engines get around this problem? How feasible is it for a start-up to develop their first title on a big name engine?

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Original post by Red Rush-In I am wondering how a demo would be distributed to potential publishers for a game based on an engine that has not yet been licensed.

Unless you negociated permission with the engine's licensor (how did you get the engine in the first place?), you don't.

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How do developers that produce titles on big name engines get around this problem? How feasible is it for a start-up to develop their first title on a big name engine?

They either take bank loans or commit their life savings. Getting the loan will require negociation, a business plan, etc...

I’m just trying to figure out a way to produce a demo and get it to a publisher without having to license the engine up front. If this isn’t possible, so be it.

Is the following scenario feasible?
Instead of licensing engine X for the demo you buy 100 copies of game X (which is based on the X engine). Game X costs $50 and you want to send a demo to 100 potential publishers. $50 x 100 = $5,000 This is much cheaper than having to license the engine which may cost at the absolute least $100,000. This all depends on if the $50 license would allow you to roll up the engine into your own install.

essentially you're talking about MODing. you can't write a game using an engine unless you have an API for that engine (i.e. something to program with). You can't get the API for a big name engine unless you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars. MODing is an open and relatively free community thing so check out the MOD friendly engines like Unreal and Half-Life. If you're talking about writing a game using something like the stolen Half-Life 2 code, not only will a publisher not publish your game but they will, in all likely-hood, black-list you for using pirated software code.

-me

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Original post by Red Rush-In I’m just trying to figure out a way to produce a demo and get it to a publisher without having to license the engine up front. If this isn’t possible, so be it.

Contact and negociate with the company that licenses the engine. It is entirely up to them.

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Is the following scenario feasible?

No.

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This all depends on if the $50 license would allow you to roll up the engine into your own install.

Buying game X does not give you a license to engine X.

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Original post by Fruny Quote: This all depends on if the $50 license would allow you to roll up the engine into your own install. Buying game X does not give you a license to engine X.

not only that, but buying game X doesn't necessarily give you the engine in a format that you'd even be able to do anything with. you can't buy Doom3 and then create a game with the DOOM3 engine. you'd need to get libraries and header files to program towards which you wouldn't get unless you specifically negotiated a deal with them. as i mentioned earlier, some game are released in a MOD friendly format so you can just script your own game into existence. if the game is friendly that way, and if the license/docs that come with the game allow it, then by all means, MOD away. :)

-me

I guess the only options are to acquire a bank loan or negotiate a preliminary deal with the engines licensor. Both are hard to do as a start up.

The Torque Game Engine costs $100 per license, $250 if you want the latest shader engine they're still working on, no need to get a loan for that kind of money I think, or at least not if you were planing to buy $5000 worth of "game x".

With Torque you get the FULL source code, so you're only limited by your coding skills.

Isn't the Quake 3 source GPL too already? use it, show demo to investor, get money, write ID a check for the comercial license.

[Edited by - Kwizatz on August 3, 2004 11:23:21 PM]

Whoops, accidentally made that an AP. I apologise.

Micah Hymer
Reverie Entertainment, LLC
www.reverieentertainment.com

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Original post by Red Rush-In I guess the only options are to acquire a bank loan or negotiate a preliminary deal with the engines licensor. Both are hard to do as a start up.

I don't know what your level of industry experience is so this may or may not apply.

1. If you are taking out a loan you need to be damn sure you can pay it back. In fact many banks wont loan you money if they know that it wont get you to a position where you can start earning money. Buying a license for an engine wont get you to that position. It will allow you to make a demo but once you have done that you then have to go through the additional process of pitching publishers (which costs more) and living for months while you do it. Many banks know how slim the chances are that a demo will get signed up so they know there is a big possibility you wont be able to pay back the loan.
The chance of getting funded by a publisher reduces to zero if you/your team have no proven industry experience.

2. You can get deals from Middleware companies but again it depends on your level of experience. I have negotiated several free "eval" licenses for clients, which were used to create prototypes. The middleware companies do this because they want people to be using their software. However they only do it for people they see as "real" developers. That means a properly set up company staffed by people with a proven games industry track record.

If you/your team don't have proven experience then go the Torque route. Start small and build up from there.