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Original post by Wush How much time you have on hand to write all that stuff? I am almost can not "read" all the stuff you posted

Talking to me? My bad, I type very fast. :)

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Original post by Way Walker Quote: This would superimpose itself partially over your normal combat view, which is a fair approximation of being preoccupied and needing others to cover you while you do your work. If it's what I'm picturing, I don't like this idea of superimposing the working area. It would pull me out of the game and into the minigame. I would prefer it (if it's possible, not sure on that, though) if you could use roughly the same interface you use for everything else. I see all sorts of problems with getting the right angle, getting "zoomed in" enough, etc. To give a combat example of the problem (I now realize combat is one part, not the main part, but it's an example), let's say I'm a medic, I jump from cover to cover as I make my way to the wounded. I believe it would be much more intense if, once I reached the wounded, I was still left in the action. To be able to look up and see the fighting and my immediate danger, to be able to just up and run like a coward before I'm finished, to have to force myself to keep my eyes on my work.

Good point. It may be possible to do this sort of thing as half or quarter screens. It isn't first person, more 3rd / isometric (like Freedom Force) so you don't have the same situational awareness constraints. If you did get a box in the center of your screen that was about the size of your character, you still might be able to see around it. But I understand what you mean, it's all about not interrupting your focus.

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Also, this probably goes without saying, but it'd be nice if the timers weren't obvious timers. Like instead of a decreasing bar, use the patient's heart rate, speech, and facial expressions for a medic (this could also make them seem more human?). If the hacking is movie style, maybe a sequence of numbers/symbols that randomly cycle and one by one lock into place (opening of the Matrix, for instance?). If the hacking is matrix style (Shadowrun matrix, not the movie, but now that I think of it, maybe the movie), perhaps a little map as sentry programs close in on your "position". Engineers probably have hand-held meters (maybe you have to actively check how much time you have left?) and gauges on their machines.

Yes, exactly what I had in mind.

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This sort of gets to the problem about soloing: Support characters need someone or something to "support". Almost by definition they're bad at soloing. However, I do like the non-combat alternatives. However, what're you going to give the soldier to do outside combat? ;)

I have a scheme for alliances and leveling involving NPCs that you'd do in off time no matter your class; then there is character leveling with various VR pods; finally, I'm (very cautiously) experimenting with an option for some Sims style needs management. Some of this, though, is going to be clearly overkill and will have to be cut or it'll be a mess to deal with as you're trying to adventure. I just want the downtime to be interesting as well as the combat time.

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Original post by Wysardry Would these support characters have the option to "set up shop" in towns, so that they replace or compete with the NPC healers, merchants etc.?

The core gameplay focus is running an operation/faction in the context of an RPG, so yes. In fact, I'd imagined that at game start you'd have enough to get a small shuttle or buy a small shop. The morale and loyalty system that's to be used for crew on a ship would be instead turned to making your customers happy. I can't dump a massive amount of detail in here and don't want a business sim, so skills play a heavy role in your success moreso than lots of micromanagement.

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In other words, could they avoid entering into dangerous areas and still be able to advance their experience/level?

The other way to do this I envision would be to win a posting on various starships via a reputation / rank system. I don't have experience / levels per se, but money and reputation stand in stead. You would just choose ships in safer areas.

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If there was more to being a resident medic than treating combat injuries, I'm sure people would at least try it. Trying to investigate, isolate and conquer an alien plague would make a refreshing change to standard combat where you're normally at a disadvantage.

Especially if there were some gameplay to getting out of the shop, exploring for evidence, negotiating for information, etc.

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Allowing the player to become a fence, gunsmith, law enforcement officer etc. opens up all kinds of possibilities. If they also had the option to set themselves up as freelance hirelings, even more flexibility would be added.

I've wanted to open as many career areas as possible. But the challenge always is in how to make the gameplay interesting enough but not so detailed that it overwhelms everything else. What I'm hopeful for is that I have a unified scheme for character advancement involving leveling through socialization or missions, which may or may not involve combat, and this can apply to any player whatever faction or operation they're a part of (theoretically, anyway). :>

Well, the medical, engineering and security staff in series like Babylon 5 or Star Trek aren't always confined to their usual work areas, so they could be used for inspiration if you run short of ideas. [smile]

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Original post by Way Walker Quote: Original post by Wavinator If you don't do this sort of thing, thing skill tests end up being a clickfest. See a door you need to hack? Equip bypass kit and click. Ally with a broken bone? Equip splint and click.

You could always turn this medic example into a puzzle itself.
Imagine this: You run up to your recently shot comrade. You right click and a little descriptive box comes up noting things you can see (this is to save on having to interpret graphics)
You get a list of items such as
Pasty skin.
No breathing.
Large hole in torso.
Excessive blood loss.
Obvious pain.
Non functional body armor.

You equip your morphine and click his neck to ease the pain. All of this is in normal FPS view. You equip your "spray on skin" cannister and spay down his torso to prevent blood loss.

Your equip your tricorder meter thingy and scan him. It replies that you have a 43% chance of keeping him alive for five minutes based on recorded injuries. It also tells you that the blood loss is starting to cause his nervous system to shut down

You equip blood units and give him 3. Re-equip meter and find out he now has an 80% chance of lasting five minutes. You then procede to move him to the field hospital where his real injuries can be taken care of.

In the field hospital, a doctor would then continue with the treatment puzzle.

It is a puzzle but not in the overt minigame way.

I played a white mage in FFXI and loved it. As a white mage I was able to avoid many of the game's short-comings. I never had to wait for a party and I was highly protected and revered. I felt no loss in not being the one to deal the actual damage to the creatures we hunted. My job was important and, by doing it well, I kept my party alive and allowed us to rack up some major EXP. After playing a WHM for so long, I couldn't imagine being in the front line with no feeling of control over the battle, wondering if I was to be the next healed. Also, because WHMs were so sought after, I pretty much had my pick of parties and several found themselves spending valuable time looking for a new healer after failing to treat myself and the other support characters properly ;). So the answer to you question is yes, absolutely, I would play the role of the support character. There's nothing that says a game has to place the main character in the position of smiter all-mighty, and FFXI was a refreshing breath of fresh air in this light.

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Original post by Wavinator Good point. It may be possible to do this sort of thing as half or quarter screens. It isn't first person, more 3rd / isometric (like Freedom Force) so you don't have the same situational awareness constraints. If you did get a box in the center of your screen that was about the size of your character, you still might be able to see around it. But I understand what you mean, it's all about not interrupting your focus.

Hmm... sprites or 3D? If 3D, maybe you could use a smart camera. You don't get a superimposed work area, but, rather, the camera zooms to the patient, or even the bit of the patient that needs attention. Perhaps it's angled such that the top 1/3 of the screen is showing some action in front of you (as if you could glance up from your work now and then). Also, I'm not sure what you mean about not interrupting your focus, but I think that's not quite what I mean. My complaint is that I become detatched from the battle field with a superimposed work area. This may be appropriate in a hacking setting if it's matrix-esque (i.e. your mind is "elsewhere"). But, maybe, in your game, that's exactly the effect you want?

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I have a scheme for alliances and leveling involving NPCs that you'd do in off time no matter your class; then there is character leveling with various VR pods; finally, I'm (very cautiously) experimenting with an option for some Sims style needs management. Some of this, though, is going to be clearly overkill and will have to be cut or it'll be a mess to deal with as you're trying to adventure. I just want the downtime to be interesting as well as the combat time.

Depending on what goes into your "Sims style needs management" (I never played the Sims), maybe you could hire an assistant of sorts (perhaps it's just a computer that makes some decisions) when you want to adventure. It'll manage what needs it can (now, did you remember your umbrella? Don't worry, I'll feed the dog while you're out), but perhaps not as efficiently as you could in your down time?

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Original post by Way Walker Hmm... sprites or 3D? If 3D, maybe you could use a smart camera. You don't get a superimposed work area, but, rather, the camera zooms to the patient, or even the bit of the patient that needs attention. Perhaps it's angled such that the top 1/3 of the screen is showing some action in front of you (as if you could glance up from your work now and then).

I like the idea, but a smart camera probably won't be doable because of the increased LOD it would invoke. The tradeoff is in more content or more detailed content.

I'm going 3D but using a perspective that controls the potentially overwhelming amount of detail (an perspective like Morrowind or System Shock 2 would require a massive effort).

The perspective is similar to Freedom Force or Aliens vs. Predator on the Xbox. You see over your head and slightly into the horizon at closest zoom, then more top down at farthest. The good thing about it is that it allows space combat, ground vehicle navigation and personal interaction all with the same UI.

Here are some screen shots from Freedom Force:

Close In
Close In (Rotated)
Long Zoom

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Also, I'm not sure what you mean about not interrupting your focus, but I think that's not quite what I mean. My complaint is that I become detatched from the battle field with a superimposed work area. This may be appropriate in a hacking setting if it's matrix-esque (i.e. your mind is "elsewhere"). But, maybe, in your game, that's exactly the effect you want?

If you take a look at the screenshots, what I'm imagining is 1/3rd of the bottom and a strip to the right side will can hold vital information like inventory or whatever minigame / intensive subgame you're playing (and you'd be able to hide them, of course).

Now this will not be as immersive as a smart camera, but it will make the project more viable.

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Depending on what goes into your "Sims style needs management" (I never played the Sims), maybe you could hire an assistant of sorts (perhaps it's just a computer that makes some decisions) when you want to adventure. It'll manage what needs it can (now, did you remember your umbrella? Don't worry, I'll feed the dog while you're out), but perhaps not as efficiently as you could in your down time?

I'm still puzzling this out, but the genius of The Sims and games like it (Space Colony) is that they create strategic gameplay with short term objectives which are based on visible timers (in the form of shrinking status bars). The timers fall at different rates, reflecting your basic survival needs (food, sleep, entertainment, socialization). Nodes sprinkled about the map "recharge" these bars: A bed, for instance, recharges your sleep need; a boxing ring your entertainment need. There may be side effects and tradeoffs to choosing one node over another, and this combined with trying to level your character up in the meantime creates some surprisingly addictive gameplay.

The problem I have is that the activities connoted by the bars are often too mundane to be heroic. Also, in an RPG I vehemently disagree with the idea of HAVING to do mundane things like eat. What I would prefer is to have some sort of bonus or reward for attending to needs (maybe skills or stats), and status quo gameplay without. This way, you have something to do in the off-time, but you in theory won't be punished for not doing it.

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Original post by Thermodynamics You could always turn this medic example into a puzzle itself. Imagine this: You run up to your recently shot comrade. You right click and a little descriptive box comes up noting things you can see (this is to save on having to interpret graphics) You get a list of items such as Pasty skin. No breathing. Large hole in torso. Excessive blood loss. Obvious pain. Non functional body armor.

I am going to explore this idea in much greater detail. It has a great deal going for it. It's much less graphics intensive (always a plus), it doesn't automatically give the solution away, it makes you think a bit, but it's not an adventure-game style brainbender.

I'm thinking that there could be degrees associated with each symptom (extreme, mild, light, etc.) and a touch of interactivity with the patient as part of the clue process. A patient that says "It hurts when I breathe" should lead you to scan his upper chest.

I also think that if you had energy points as part of your limited resource then all of this would become a strategy. Maybe a full body scan will reveal every symptom but use up alot of the energy you need. Paying attention to clues, however, would save more energy. This could be challenging, though, if there was a timer indicating that the patient was dying.

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You equip your morphine and click his neck to ease the pain. All of this is in normal FPS view. You equip your "spray on skin" cannister and spay down his torso to prevent blood loss. Your equip your tricorder meter thingy and scan him. It replies that you have a 43% chance of keeping him alive for five minutes based on recorded injuries. It also tells you that the blood loss is starting to cause his nervous system to shut down You equip blood units and give him 3. Re-equip meter and find out he now has an 80% chance of lasting five minutes. You then procede to move him to the field hospital where his real injuries can be taken care of. In the field hospital, a doctor would then continue with the treatment puzzle. It is a puzzle but not in the overt minigame way.

I also like your steps. Rather than just "click you fix it" there would be strategies with tools, and you'd get relatively quick feedback on your actions. What could be challenging is if there were delayed responses to some effects: For instance, the patient is expiring but it's going to take a couple of seconds to see if your new nanite injection worked, and in the meantime you can't administer any palatives like electric shock if they go into cardiac arrest.

I can see many ways to make this as rich and textured as combat, and it's all based on stats.

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Original post by Wysardry Well, the medical, engineering and security staff in series like Babylon 5 or Star Trek aren't always confined to their usual work areas, so they could be used for inspiration if you run short of ideas. [smile]

What I like about these series is that the medics and security personnel are always getting into other trouble. Various plotlines branch off involving their families, friends, secret alliances, efforts and troubles.

I'm not sure how much of this I'll be able to give you for downtime. I have a few status building and item creation things I think you could do. If possible, there will be plot fragments if not entire stories. And some needs management like I've mentioned above may fill in the rest.

It's a tough call because it's going to be hard to make it feel unified unless I come up with a good UI flow that feels natural when you move from combat to non-combat duty to free time. In each phase, the world will have to contain enough interactivity that you find meaningful to be worth the development time. We all seem to find combat meaningful, but non-combat activity is much more challenging to formulate.