As per you''re addictive substance where a person uses it at first for fun and then they become reliant on this... Is powermaxing in games the same thing? Also, are we as game designers putting these elements into our games not becuase we want to but because we some how feel compelled to do it because we too are addicted to this game design element? I know some people (like myself) are starting to dislike the experience of having to powermax in games and are trying to find ways around this computer game epidemic. I admit that i DO think that powermaxing has reached an epidemic level in games and should be avoided at all costs. I love Game Design and it loves me back. Our Goal is "Fun"!

leveling is i think for "your" or "my" charachter.
it wouldn''t feel like me if i couldn''t level up.
but if the focus is story...then leveling isn''t as needed much.



I like getting the next spell level(in a fighting game of any type.).

Cause the monsters get tougher, that''s why ice1 is still there..and doens''t get overridden by ice3.(or fire, or bolt or cure) so the lil imps get killed without me using up to much mp.
i don''t like that in diablo, the fireballs get to fast..or whatever spell takes more mana as it gets stronger..

I think a good magician has control over spells not just big spell.energy usage.


but even if spells were all given to you in the beginning...i''d want to see the next event in the story unfold...the next....next spell...next scene....

"back it up soup nazi...no more soup for you....NEXT!"
next...is the keyword.


that''s in that type of game
you could make a game..where you try to survive..(can''t get stronger!)..or..you know...instead of being the hero..the eventual plot(hehe..burial plot) is when the/your character died..just how long you gonna last?




MORE EXAMPLES!

my cousin plays crash bandicoot on psx
and her main goal is the next level
get the purple crystals (and as much lives as you can hehe)
and defeat the boss to get to the next world..
she doesn''t care about getting the unneccesary white gems...

she''s in it for the story...
I like getting the gems...and rubbing it in her face!

and when i unlocked a new world by getting best times...she didn''t even like the levels i unlocked!!! wasn''t worth it.

leveling up isn''t worth it to her..but to me it is...that''s MY fav part!..

The only time I get concerned about maxing my points is when I''m getting my ass kicked. I almost always spend the first few games playing around with what I think would be an interesting or reasonable way to play, only to get stomped in short order.

If it''s a single player game then usually I haven''t read the rules closely enough.

A lot of times though, it''s games that are built to emphasize a straightforward approach to increasing difficulty. They just bump up the number or power of the enemies that you have to get around. The steeper the increase, the more challenge for the player.

The only place for a player to apply effective strategy is in maxing the points.

Games would be a lot more interesting if they had a greater variety of methods rather than a variety of levels. In other words, more numbers instead of bigger numbers.

But that takes more work for the programmers and designers, so I can''t imagine it happening very often.

You go up in level and the enemies get harder. Nothings changed since the beginning of the game. The is why powermaxing doesn''t work, is because the enemies are always the same as you regardless. My friends, i''d hate to be the one to burst the bubble for you but you''re powermaxing is all asthetic, it doesn''t really exist!

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

I agree with the point you''re making, although not exactly with your words.

Player gets stronger, monsters get stronger, the only thing that changes is the relative strength, which stays bout the same. This balance may deviate slightly to give players the feeling of accomplishment in the short term, but in the long term it''s fairly constant.

And herein lies the problem. The only thing I can do with monsters is kill them. If I as a player have the choice to devote points (skills, spells, whatever) into different options, there will inevitably be some choices that are better at killing monsters than others. The game mechanic provides incentives to maximise my killing ability, and thus powermax my character.

It''s just dull. I can guarantee I''ll spend a few parties/characters/armies just experimenting with less directly productive point expenditures. But this is not an enjoyable experience because the games focus on one element (killing) and if I don''t powermax the player killing ability then the monsters will eventually outpace the strength of my character/army/whatnot.

The solution, IMO, is to change the game mechanic.

quote: Original post by Paul Cunningham

You go up in level and the enemies get harder. Nothings changed since the beginning of the game. The is why powermaxing doesn''t work, is because the enemies are always the same as you regardless. My friends, i''d hate to be the one to burst the bubble for you but you''re powermaxing is all asthetic, it doesn''t really exist!

Well, it is all about illusion, isn''t it? You want to pretend much has changed without it actually changing (heh, to save yourself a boatload of work).

Leveling up gives the illusion of power and progress. If you can come up with better forms of power and progress, then by all means...



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Just waiting for the mothership...

in a truely balanced game all actions are choices between valid courses of action. When one of multiple choices is better than the others it is not a choice anymore. Then the "roleplayers" will choose at random and the "powergamers" will choose the best one. The distinction between the two groups would not exist if all choices were valid, or if there was no choice at all.

quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster

in a truely balanced game all actions are choices between valid courses of action. When one of multiple choices is better than the others it is not a choice anymore.

So if killing is the best way to go then it''s not a choice.

quote:
Then the "roleplayers" will choose at random and the "powergamers" will choose the best one. The distinction between the two groups would not exist if all choices were valid, or if there was no choice at all.

It''s not necessarily the "Powergamers", it really accounts for you average player (hardcore or casual). If there was no choice at all then it ceases to be a game. Most games try to give you the illusion that the little things you do will make a difference to the outcome of the game but all they really do if give you a different angle on the gameplay. Which in a way is a good thing because really it doesn''t matter if the game ends differently becuase you''re playing the game to enjoy the meat in the sandwich which is the guts of the game. Ahhh, i''ve got to think about this one a bit more.


I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

powermaxing would not be so important to players if they started of with a decent character; most of the time however, games seem to force us to play these underdeveloped bards and squires and we have to make them demigods just to make it through the game.

i know what you mean about it becoming addicting. i believe the reason it is so addicting is because it gives us the player a real, clean cut, mathematical sense of progress. "i''m getting some where in this game because i am three levels higher than i was last week"...that kinda thing. this too would seem less important if the game showed the player''s progress to them more readily...




<(o)>

"So if killing is the best way to go then it''s not a choice."

well how exactly are you going to kill them? Rocket launcher or shotgun? Tank push or wraith containment? Magic Missle or Turn Undead? Those are fine choices, the problem is when it becomes dragoon horde vs dragoon swarm.

Basically when a game is well balanced all other concerns fall away and people just start playing. So the question becomes, is this a balance issue or an issue that would go away if we worked on the balance issues? Oh and as you might have guessed I like mastering game systems. Mastering a poorly designed game system is called powermaxing, mastering a well designed game system is called "skill"