Quote: Original post by raydog
You say you've played Muds for 5 years, but only scratched the surface of creating one?
Muds are an expensive investment of time, either playing or creating. It's around the
clock maintenance, 24hrs a day. It's a type of micro-management that I try to avoid.
In my opinion, the amount of time you put into it is not profitable.

I don't recall ever having said I only scratched the surface of creating one. I DID create one. While it wasn't as serious an effort as I'd make now, it was fully functional, so I'm absolutely aware of all the maintenance required. Perhaps you're misunderstanding me. I enjoy playing MUDs, and I enjoy coding (provided I'm coding something I like), so even if this generated no income, it wouldn't be a waste of time. However, because I don't have as much time as I used to, I wouldn't mind getting some money out of it as well. That's all.

Obscure and Kylotan (again) brought up some ideas that I hadn't thought of before. I actually wasn't aware Achaea's owners were able to make enough money from it to quit their day job - I didn't think anyone would pay those exorbitant sums to get simple in-game items! A rotation of available items really is a brilliant idea. Obscure also makes a good point, addressing my concern of overpowering players with purchased items.

I appreciate the help so far, guys!

Hmm...Maybe something like what Shattered Galaxy does (or an adaptation) could work.

I'll give a small list of what the difference in the game between paying and non-paying members (missing out a few very specific things to the game that I would otherwise have to explain).

Non-payers
- get less experience
- do less damage
- have an attribute cap
- are outranked by payers in battle
- cannot participate in politics
- cannot be awarded special units
- cannot purchase rare items
- do not get faction-wide bonuses
- cannot use reincarnation system (this lets players restart their character after they have maxed but get bonuses after the restart, hence character becomes increasingly powerful)

http://www.shatteredgalaxy.com if you want to find out more info.

Basically non-subscribers get all the basic gameplay that is available to everyone, but subscribers get a few exclusive perks that means they will always be able to improve better than the non-subscribers. Of course this is a team game, so the mix of both types of players tend to balance out the battles a little.

As for giving out good items to subscribers - it sounds like you are just giving them away for nothing. Perhaps if they are too powerful, tone done items a little and make the subscribers work for it. It is only available to them for purchase with game currency but as a reward for in-game achievement. I'd say have the power difference of the items get bigger and bigger for a likewise increase in cost.

I think this business model is a sound one.

there is another point missed though.

if you have paying customers you wil need to support thier queries, complaints etc.

I love the idea and I think maybe commercial mmos should go down this route instead of subscribsion.

I know they wouldn't but a game like sims online could work like that(tbh I don't know how it works :p).

There is a community out there that will play it if it has an attractive story line.

There could be away of attracting a new crowd that are not MUD savvy. You could as part of your website create a JAVA telnet client that has an interface that saves them from having to know what to type and they could just press buttons etc.

I played muds for years and years.

There ARE commercial MUDs and there are a fair number of MUD players. I agree the MUD world is stagnant or shrinking... but you will be competing with MANY other free MUDs for a pay to play game... you had better have some real incredible content.

Some MUDs overcome that by creating a GUI for their mud... Avalon is the one that comes to mind which did that.

I don't know any way to create a mud and really get the throngs of people it would take to fly as a business venture.

www.mudconnector.com is your best friend in that effort though.

-Joseph Lieberman
www.vgsmart.com
Video Game Marketing, Smart.

Although profit margins for Medievia (play here) are not released - it can be expected that game has likely made Mike ( the owner ) a millionaire. You can buy in-game items that provide bonuses to your character - like a container that can hold many more items than normal containers, or items that you can wear to improve your stats. When I played, there were ~10 items you could buy. The catcher is that each item expires - generally in one year. This provides renewable income.

I would approximate that there are at least 1000 people who renew an average of at least 5 items per year. Each item requires a ~$50 'donation' ( I was always curious if this was a tax evasion scheme ) to the server. Add it up and he's making several hundred thousand per year off of that game. Although that game is definitely an exception, it shows there is still plenty of profit being made in text games.

Quote: Original post by vgsmart
I played muds for years and years.

There ARE commercial MUDs and there are a fair number of MUD players. I agree the MUD world is stagnant or shrinking... but you will be competing with MANY other free MUDs for a pay to play game... you had better have some real incredible content.

Some MUDs overcome that by creating a GUI for their mud... Avalon is the one that comes to mind which did that.

I don't know any way to create a mud and really get the throngs of people it would take to fly as a business venture.

www.mudconnector.com is your best friend in that effort though.

-Joseph Lieberman
www.vgsmart.com
Video Game Marketing, Smart.

Agreed, few people play MUDs anymore compared to a decade ago, but apparently there is still a market for it. I also believe I can come up with some good content - the problem with the overwhelming majority of MUDs today is that they are all presented the same way. I haven't seen one yet with a turn based system, or an active time battle system (a la Final Fantasy 4 and above) or a charge time battle system (a la Final Fantasy Tactics). There are *so many* options that have not been even touched by any MUD developer; they choose instead to follow conventions. I've tried out all the Top 10 MUDs on Mudconnector.com, and they each elicited a huge yawn from me. I want something new and fresh, and I think I can do it.

Thanks for your help on this subject, everyone. It appears to be the case that pay-to-play and subscription is NOT the way to go, and instead, an item or perk system based on donations would be ideal. I believe my question has been answered. Expect a topic in Game Design sometime soon on good MUD design :D

argh! damnit! that last post was me. stupid cookies..

Ahem. MUD's are a very profitable market. FYI, Achaea pays for the full-time jobs for SEVERAL people, not just one. I have also met at least two multi-millionaire MUD owners (although note that they've been in the business a long time - this is not overnight-success, this is hard graft over many years).

Again, FYI, Matt Mihaly (Achaea's founder) is currently trying to move from MUD's up into much bigger stuff, based on his extensive experience and skills. The last I heard they'd had problems with getting funding, but I suspect they'll find the right partner soon.

I would love to see the figures to prove the MUD market is shrinking. Personally, until I see them I don't believe it; I work full time in that segment of the industry, and although MUD's are growing slower than the industry average (30% per annum) they do seem to still be growing.

I strongly suggest that the OP subscribes to MUD-DEV and reads the 8+ years of archived posts (all available online). Use google to narrow your search to business-related threads. You will find a heck of a lot of info and advice there; many of the big names from MMOG's (SOE, NCSoft, EA, etc) are members, alongside their counterparts in the MUD world, although that sometimes leads to friction!

I think the point is that the startup (time and money) is not profitable. In the long run,
like 5-10 years, it might be profitable. For one person who wants to make money, this is
even more incredibly difficult. So, if this one person brings in more people to make life easier,
then they probably want to get paid if you're making money off them? One person isn't going to
make a million bucks by themselves, no matter how good your mud is.

If people don't like typing so much, you could try tieing your MUD into somewhere people do like to type, IRC.

It's easy enough to write an IRC bot, which could run the game for you.

Then you could either sell advertising (the bot could send out messages to all the players now and then), or tie a website into the game as well, where people can do all the above mentioned ideas such as selling ingame items, or perks.