Games need flexibility. Scripts are rigid. What if there were no scripts? What if all that was needed was information about how the world was setup? Would writing be obsolete? What if, in Baulder''s Gate, you could assasinate the king and steal the throne and capture all the maidens and take over the world and rein with death and destruction? What if, in Ultima 7, you joined the fellowship and worked to destroy good, and KILL LORD BRITISH? What if you then decided that the fellowship was stupid and started your OWN fellowship called "Fight Club?" *snicker* What if...? What if that were possible? And, the game system relied on the previous state of the game & the player''s actions to determine the next, rather than following a scripted series of steps? What if the game you are playing now didn''t ressurect people you already killed because they were supposed to do something important? What if every time you played the game, it was NEVER the same? Or even similiar? Would game writers like not being in control of the "ending?" (if there was an ending at ALL? hmmm, I like that idea.) (ooh, ooh!) What if y''all gave some thoughts? What if I shut up now because I''m annoying myself? -=- What if Goblin Genocide wasn''t happening? What if it was HUMAN GENOCIDE??? What if you decided, as a human, to exterminate the rest of your race? What if I never say ''what if'' again?

Well, what if is appropriate because I don't think that AI is advanced enough to really make the world react to the player's decisions with only information about the world.

IF it could be done, it would be really great. I wouldn't mind the loss of control personally.


Another possiblity is that there was a set story, and what part the player plays in that story could be very different each time. Like, if during the story some thieves try to break into the king's treasure. If the player has a reputation for being a thief, and socialized with the thieves, they would possibly have the player help them. On the other hand, if the player had become one of the king's guards, the player would be protecting the treasure. There's many more possiblities all with the same situations.

At least, it would be less repetitious than a typical scripted story.

Edited by - Nazrix on September 17, 2000 9:12:25 PM

Sounds great! Where do we start?

You really liked that one, Landfish? I just sort of pulled that one out of nowhere

I should try getting less sleep more often...





"Even though the course may change sometimes, the rivers always reach the sea."

Oh what a beutiful world we would live in if our RPGs could be totally dynamic and autonomous. The day will come, but until then, I think there is need for scripting. Well... maybe that''s not entirely true.

See the problem with making a world without a script at all is that it becomes very sterile. Remember Daggerfall? Wow, what depth! Millions of cities! You could make your own alliances with anyone you want. Become good, become bad, become a vampire. Or just become a silly person who spends his days earning favor with Dibella to get in good with the foxy ladies (see: Sex & Games), and by night turn into a thief with a fetish for breaking into homes and stealing nothing but clothing. What freedom!
But, I couldn''t play Daggerfall much, for many reasons. For one, there was little anything unique as you moved from place to place. One city was as good as the next, and just as culturally diverse (on occasion the textures would change). Talking to the people, you couldn''t have rich conversations. You selected various locations/people/whatnot to talk about, and based on a number of variables, the inahbitants would give you a canned message. And that wouldn''t be so bad, but if you just kept clicking and you''d get varied responses (ie. "Hmmm, I''m not very sure where that is, Northeast I think." to "I know exactly where that is! Let me mark it on your map!") Anyway, enough harping on Daggerfall. It''s not THE definitive dynamic world.
So in that respect, go ahead and make a dynamic unscripted world, don''t forget to make it unique.

But my other issue is this. Storyline! I know you make your own story, but let''s face it, you''re not a fantasy writer. There are some people with some really good ideas and storytelling methods that you don''t have. When they create a wonderful plot, with twists and turns and everything in between, it can blow you away. I doubt you can impress yourself in that manner with your own story. In fact it will probably be very black and white, with little to no twists or personality. You do some things, you succeed or not, rinse, lather, repeat. It may make your character unique or interesting, or say something about your playing style, but dosen''t entail much more than that. I liked Daggerfall''s idea of having a definite storyline that you had the option of participating in, but since their focus was on the dynamic world, it was still pretty sterile. If somebody could do that correctly, I would die and go to RPG heaven.
One way to combat this problem is to make the game online. There, you interact with scores of other people who have their own agendas, motives, sneaky tricks, etc. Though it will still not be on par with hard core fantasy writing, but it''s something.

So my final word? Yeah, scripting is frequently too prominent, but to abolish it in favor of a totally dynamic world makes the world boring and often unbelievable. It''s like cooking, you don''t just cook the chicken, and you don''t just cook the rice (well you can), you cook a nice hearty portion of chicken and cover it in rice. Keep em both! Make the heavily scripted games for people who like RPGs but are not hardcore who don''t mind following a set path. Make the lightly scripted dynamic games for people who want freedom and control. But please at least have some semblance of a unique world with unique people and plot.

I''m being kicked off the computer so I have to go now! Have a good one!

Slim,

I do have to agree with you. No scripting at all is probably not a good option unless we had a really, really smart computer that could react to things in a very intelligent way.

I also agree about Daggerfall. You'll notice that in the next Elder Scrolls game (Morrowind) will be less random and have more unique areas.

Less scripting would be good...but not lack of scripting entirely.

Edited by - Nazrix on September 17, 2000 10:52:32 PM

(landfish grins at Naz''s completely missing his blatant sacrasm)

Try answering my question and you''ll see what I meant.

I like slim''s idea. I''d hate to have to program the fully dynamic world (unless it was online!), because it would either suck or I''d never have the time to put in other things like graphics and sound so people wouldn''t even look at the game...

I don''t even think I''m making sense, so I''m going to go to sleep.

Well I think what you''re suggesting is more along the lines of a SimWorld ( SimRPG anyone? ) in which there are also storylines to entertain the gamer. I have been thinking of designing a very simple game world ( with a few ''standard RPG storylines/quests'' (save the maiden who has been captured by the dragon, find the Holy Grail-ish item, etc), and working from there.

I think it can be done, it just needs some planning and care to evolve it to the point where a game world can be totally self sufficient based on objects and uncontrollable forces that cause events and effects in the world.



MatrixCubed

Gross generalisation : Have a non-linear world, generally free of scripting, but have scripts you can choose if (and when) you get bored with wandering around.