Hi, I am getting increasingly annoyed by all the copy protection schemes that exist on commercial game CD-ROMs. Let me first make it clear that I am not a user of pirated software and that this is not the issue here. The issue here is how much the legal users are being annoyed by it. I am writing this because I just recently bought a copy of Braveheart (cheaply - it is an old game after all) and after installing it it just kept existing without any notice. After digging through some faqs its turns out that it will not work on computers that contain a DVD-ROM drive due to "copy protection reasons". So I have to unplug my DVD-drive to play the game. That really sucks. This is not the only case. I have tried lots of other problems: * The game CD must be in a drive - and in a specific drive if you have multiple - to allow you to play the game. All other software can be run from harddisks, but games think that they are allowed to bother the user and force him to insert the CD-ROM. Annoying. * The above problem get much worse when the game contains several CD-ROMs that you have to switch between. THis annoyed me in Baldur''s Gate - I had to use all 5 CDs although I had chosen a full install. Annoying. * The game requires you to enter some code from the manual to use it. Most games don''t use this scheme any more. Good because that was annoying. * Copy protection of the actual CD. This is annoying, because as far as I know you are by law allowed to make personal backups of your software. You bought the license to use it - not the CD-ROM. * Hard to use games with manuals not on-line. Annoying most non-game applications include on-line help so I don''t have to move from my chair to figure something out. Annoying. And even when these precautions are made the software are pirated anyway - by crackers that remove those parts - so why really bother going to these lengths? You are just annoying the people that legally own the game. The crackers don''t distribute the full game anyway (they distribute "ripped" versions) so people with a bit of sense will still buy them (beside they are staying within the law, of course). So I hate copy protection. Do you? Jacob Marner

I don''t know about the rest of it, or even what i''m talking about
but cd''s i think the manufactures of cd-rom drives(I think) dont'' pay money to anti-piracy, soo you can''t make legal backups on them, i think..I dont'' know correct me if i''m wrong.

You are allowed to make legal back-ups, but they are also allowed to legally try and prevent that.

Im really wondering how they do the copy portection, considering you can read the CD, but you cant read the CD to copy it? Weird.

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A wise man once said "A person with half a clue is more dangerous than a person with or without one."

This is one of those really tough issues that seem to have no real answer. There''s WAAAAAAY too much casual piracy out there, and if you don''t at least *try* to slow it down you''ll be screwed. But the more schemes you put in place, the more you risk annoying your users.

As a game player and creator, I understand and sympathize with the intent. So I''m not really all that bothered by CD protection because I know what it''s for.

Let''s face it. Most people don''t seem to want to pay for games (or anything else for that matter-- look at MP3s). The people I''ve talked to are *remarkably* obtuse about this, and refuse to see things from the creators perspective (namely if you don''t friggin'' pay for it, they won''t be able to keep making it...)

This would really be a less of an issue if all drives came with some sort of copy protection chip that synched with manufactured CDs. Yeah, the hardcore pirates would rip them out and circumvent this, but it would really slow down casual copying.

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Just waiting for the mothership...

Wavinator,

I agree that doing copy protection certainly decreases casual copying. After all you have to have at least some computer knowledge to circumvent the copy protection.

CD-ROM programs such as Adaptec CD Creator does a file per file copy, so by messing up the directory index of the CD-ROM you confuse the CD-copier. For instance, In Thief - The Dark Project I noticed that it contained 4 files all 500 MB large on the same CD and these files had to be present for the game to work.

But, there are low-level CD copy programs out there (I have one myself to make my legal copies - but I won''t give the name here) that makes exact copies of the CD. This program can also be used to make Playstation CD copies and much more.

For a long time it was tricky to copy CDs with more than 650 MB data, because on silver platters you can put up to 700 MB, but today you can copy those too with the right tools.

My point is, that you at the moment really aren''t doing anything but preventing the really casual user for making the copy - those without much computer knowledge.

I know of several people (no names mentioned) that has made a kind of club where they split the price of a game. If they can copy it they do. If they can''t the game takes turns among them until they have all played it. These people are really annoyed about games they can''t copy because they have to wait for each other. You might say that they should buy one each, but the fact is that they would buy much less games (I believe) if they couldn''t make those copies.
I know it is illegal what they are doing but it is this kind of people that copy protection really hurts.

If you want copies of anything you can get it on the net. There is this company that a friend of mine gave me a link to in Estonia that can give you CD copies of almost any piece of software you want for almost no money. They can do it no matter what. This kind of companies is according to a recent newpaper article I read organized under the Russian Mafia or various terrorist groups who uses it to gain more money for weapons. So what happens? People buy from these companies instead of doing casual copying and give money to terrorist groups. I have tried to tell the guy that gave me the site URL that it was very immoral what he was doing but he didn''t care. I think casual copying among friends is much less immoral. It is the organized distributions that are the real enemy - and those cannot be fought with copy protection.

Jacob Marner

quote: Original post by felonius
I know it is illegal what they are doing but it is this kind of people that copy protection really hurts.

So... it hurts the people that are copying it? That''s a bad thing?




-Agent1




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[art]: Take it out, then shove it in a day or two.
[art]: *Operates on his brains.

I think that the kind of copy protection that disallows things to work on computers with a DVD could be bordering on illegal - this is discrimination.

As for the argument that copying hurts sales:
There''s STILL no evidence of MP3 sharing hurting album sales at all... they were UP last year, not DOWN.

I''m not sure if that holds for software, but chances are, it does.

The only form of copy protection that WORKS is added value.
If you get some really nice stuff with the game ( nice looking CD, cool booklet/manual, trinkets, cloth map, box that you might put on a shelf to brag, etc. ) people might want to buy it for THAT stuff. You can''t copy a manual exactly without incurring serious cost.
Another thing could be support. A registered version of your game/software could entitle you to updates and such from the publishers. You might get "special deals" and "collectibles" and such just ''cause you are registered. Preferential treatment!


People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~

Agreed, added value is essential.
The only reason I bought Ultima Serpent Isle and Ultima Underworld is because in the warez Ultima VII I had, there was a map ... and I adore maps
Plus I actually felt like I had to pay them, Ultima VII was SO good, I just felt for once like I was giving the little money I had to something worth it (I was 12...)

youpla :-P

Actually, maybe because I''m so far behind on the tech end of computers that I don''t have many new games, copy protection hasn''t been a big deal for me. I have to use the CDs most of the time anyway, because I don''t have HD space (yet) to do a full install. Like, a few weeks ago I bought Daggefall, and I have the minimum install (~40 MB, I think) on my computer, and have to access the CD constantly anyway. (Good thing I have a 48x drive.)

Why is it that burning pirate discs doesn''t also copy the copy-protected information? I don''t have any experience with it, but it would seem that an image copy should copy all the files. Of course, like felonius said, people that don''t understand how to get around hidden or otherwise protected tracks aren''t going to be pirating discs anyway, except by taking other people''s copies.

One other thing...again, I haven''t been on any warez sites for years (and when I did, I was just looking to see what I could find, and generally I had to sift through to many pop-up ads to find anything) and a lot of the time, you can find cracks for the programs that keep it from having to have the CDs anyway. Since the CD is (presumably, in the case mentioned) a legal copy, there shouldn''t be any "moral issues" with using the copy-protection crack, even if you would have them with illegal discs.

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All hail the Technoweenie!

The copy protection only works when the apps acctually read the file system. Most burner apps have a mode where they copy bit by bit, designed for music CDs usually. Such copying can not be prevented short of making a deal with the harware manufacurers.