Regardless of how many times this kind of question has been asked on this board, I want to make a definitive thread so that we can all put our thoughts in one collective place. I think that the subject is reasonably self-explanatory, but here are some other questions: 1) Do you prefer 3rd person, 1st person or a hybrid? 2) "Real-world" puzzles, or "Use lampshade w/ bulldozer" puzzles? 3) Any thoughts AT ALL!!! Thanks everyone. ------------------------------ Changing the future of adventure gaming... Atypical Interactive

Great subject. I''m not normally an adventure game player, but I would be if I saw more of these types of suggestions put in:

1) Real world puzzles. Use lampshade with bulldozer drives me NUTS and makes me have to guess what the designer was thinking.

2) Lotsa room to experiment. If I can''t figure out a puzzle, I''m gonna need to try solving it from different angles. But if you stick me at a screen or on a level and I can''t try to come at the problem in different ways, then I get bored.

3) Don''t stop the story for the puzzles. It''s like reading a really good book then having it snatched out of your hands so you can solve a crossword puzzle. Like a good murder myster, the puzzles should be the story.

4) Relevant puzzles. I shouldn''t have to solve a chess problem in order to get a key to open a door. The key-door obstacle should BE the puzzle.

5) More 3D puzzles. Azrael''s Tear was one of the only games I know of that really did a lot of this... you had real world physical problems to solve in a 3D space. For instance, you had to swing a pipe around to get steam to flow (or something), and you could look at it from many different angles. It became an interesting mechanical problem. Tomb Raider puzzles are somewhat like this, but not as good.



--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

A)I really want a good story and atmosphere.I want to really wonder what comes next, not just "OK, next puzzle".
B)Good characters like Shodan in System Shock or the Alchemist in Reah
C)Many options.If I can't find the key to the door, I should be able to get in through a window or something
D) Puzzles based either on reality or or NPC interaction
I'll add more later

Runemaster
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Edited by - runemaster on August 14, 2000 4:56:40 PM

I''m with you runemaster... but in addition to 3D or 1st person or hybrid? I choose... um... isometric.. the great 2D experience!

-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)

Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)

I much prefer the 3rd person perspective. I''ve never much liked the 1st person perspective and until I can get a 3D helmet with RealTouch (tm) I probably never will.

I don''t see the need to choose between the different types of puzzles, unless you want to. That you have social puzzles need not prevent you from having mechanical puzzles as well. In fact you could use one type of puzzle to enhance the meaning of the other.

I like mechanical puzzles just fine, but the usual interface (Return to Zork, Indiana Jones, The Dig) could use some improvement. Perhaps if you actually hurled the lampshade at the bulldozer or drove the bulldozer over the lampshade...

That''s all I can think of right now. Your thoughts?

The option of puzzles should be there to allow the player to understand that it is actually them that is deciding the outcome of their character. The outcomes should be different based on the fact that characters acheive differnt tasks depending on different paths they choose

-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)

Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)

"1) Do you prefer 3rd person, 1st person or a hybrid?

2) "Real-world" puzzles, or "Use lampshade w/ bulldozer" puzzles?

3) Any thoughts AT ALL!!!"

1) Depends on the game!

2) I only want puzzles if they are an integrated part of the game. Puzzles that don''t make sense or are too ridiculous to figure out turn me off. I know you need to have gameplay to call it a game, but if you''re just throwing in gameplay willy-nilly, you might as well just write a novel and forget making it a game.

3) I''d love to see people steer clear of cliched, bad writing, but I don''t expect that to happen unless game designers start hiring professional writers.

quote:
Dwarfsoft said:
I''m with you runemaster... but in addition to 3D or 1st person or hybrid? I choose... um... isometric.. the great 2D experience!

Well thank God ,a second person with the same idea!
When i said to people that i was going to make an isometric adventure game every one,even the most irelevant,said:

"Isometric view is only for RPG''s"

Well goto hell!
I can use whatever perspective i like in my adventure game!
Dwarfsoft i begin to like you very much

quote:

Atypical said:
I think that the subject is reasonably self-explanatory, but here are some other questions:

1) Do you prefer 3rd person, 1st person or a hybrid?

2) "Real-world" puzzles, or "Use lampshade w/ bulldozer" puzzles?

3) Any thoughts AT ALL!!!

1)i''ve just answered upstairs.
And generally i prefer the 3rd person view regardless the game being in 3D or 2D.(well i like more 2D)

2)Real world puzzles that suit the game''s attitude.
I mean you should make puzzles that assume you use logic and not mental illness,but they must suit the game''s character(funny,humourous,mysterious,etc.).
I would never agree with the lampshade-bulldozer thing(do i smell Ernest Adams here?) unless the game is supposed to be wacky.

3)Now a list of more things:
*Some puzzles must have more than one solutions
There are several ways of opening a door when you don''t have the key!

*Freedom to move
The character should move free in the world just like in an RPG and not only in certain places like classic adventurs.

*The story must not be based on a single puzzle line
You must be able to achieve some things with more than one ways.
The only difference is that one way is shorter than the other.

*You should die sometimes you know
In most(older classic) adventure games the hero usually was immortal!Well...

*You can''t carry everything
Your inventory must be limited.However you should be able to leave things somewhere(or anywhere)

*You can''t move everything
Unless you''re Superman,moving large ,heavy objects is not very realistic.

And some other things i''m forgetting right now

Voodoo4

Multiple endings can be nice, too

Runemaster
Join the Game Developers SiteRing !

The only problem with the complete freedom to move in an adventure game is that you could spend a half hour exploring some are you don't need to go to yet, and find out you're missign a key you need to solve some puzzle there (of course if there's more than one solution, that's no big deal), but even worse is that you can get lost! There's nothing I hate more than getting lost in a game, and having no clue where I'm supposed to go! I guess some games that are wholly immersive, it's sorta fun, but most games (Adventure or RPG), it normally gets pretty boring if you stray from the designated path, so on some games I've played (can't think of any off the top of my head), being able to "go anywhere" deterred me from the game, because I wasted too much time being lost!

--
Pretty Colors Are Neat.


Edited by - wasteland on August 15, 2000 5:05:26 PM