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Sleep and the level up lottery

Started by May 07, 2004 05:29 AM
19 comments, last by Wavinator 20 years, 8 months ago
quote:
Original post by Wavinator
Nanotech helps them to stay healthy as they explore wildly different alien environments or interact with aliens, and the implant helps them store and recall more knowledge than a human normally could.



Are there any side effects to the procedure? Perhaps Instead of drinking water the player has to drink an ionized solution to recharge and replace their nanotech.

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If they''re marooned on an unsettled world, too poor, or behind enemy lines however, they have a timed meter for eating and sleeping which kicks in. This creates goal based gameplay no matter what map their on.



Perhaps there could be hunger bar and thirst bar, they stay at zero as long as the player is able to eat at every day. If they can''t eat the bar begins to fill slowly, say 1% every 3 hours. Each food could have a hunger reduction stat, eating that food reduces the hunger bar by its hunger reduction stat. However hunger can only be reduced once every twelve hours, so eating a lot of food would only provide the reduction benefit of the food with highest reduction stat the rest is essentially wasted. The hunger bar would reduces all stats and skill by its propotinal to its current value. So if the play is 5% hungry and then all their stats and skills would be reduced by 5%.



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Eating

  • Eating different vitamin/nano enriched foods raise resistance to one element or disease while always lowering another. Zelenae Brainwheat, for instance, allows them to configure their nano so that the get +2 vs. electrical damage, but -3 versus heat damage.
  • The amount raised or lowered depends on the type and quality of food.
  • Certain alien foods, like Kovaunn Bilemeal, would require a Will check, depending on the species. Failure would result in an inability to eat the food for that time period.
  • Alien/incompatible foods would have the biggest gains but most risk associated, as in temporary poisoning, paralysis or stat loss.
  • The quality of the food relates to the ratio of positive to negative effects, as well as its expense
  • Cooking food would change nano-properties, and there may be some room for genetic experimentation and cooking gear.
  • Civilied areas would contain roaming robot kiosks, restaurants and dives which had varying types and qualities of quisine. Some places in the universe would be more reknown for certain dishes than others.



Parsona 2: eternal punishment allowed you to eat food, it had the effect of temporarly increasing stats, the actual stats and increase depended on the food you ate, the effect where only tempory however and you couldn''t eat anything while you where under the effect of another food. Perhaps the same could be applied here? Rather then having all food permantly change stats, make the changes tempory. There could be specific substance that could provide a perment change but they should be uncommon and perhaps not things that players would normally consider "food".

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Sleeping

  • Sleeping allows the player to train in their dreams, improving skills
  • The player plays a minigame to improve their skills
  • Skills don''t become hardcoded in memory until the player wakes up
  • They can play one round of the minigame once for each hour they sleep
  • They can only sleep a maximum of double the species average (16 for terrans)
  • The better they do at the game, the more points they get (from between 1-3 per round)
  • The higher their skill, the tougher the game becomes
  • Failures in the minigame can erase successes of previous rounds, by so many points
  • Players can make their skills go up by more than 1-3 rounds by risking up to 10 points in an existing skill they previously learned. This buys them 1 extra point, but if they lose, they lose 10 skill points. (Their brain is reorganizing neurons and memory).
  • Different facilities and gadgets modify the number of rounds they can play. A cot near a noisy machine, for instance, is -6 rounds, while a Dreambed gives +2.




Rather then allow the player to do this whenever they sleep, it might be better to have a special faciliy that is required to do this. Say the Transendance chamber, a special chamber that the player has to pay to use, they can be found at diffrent ports and even purchased at a ridculious fee for the ship. You could have diffrent version of the chamber from the pristine high tech model to the bootleg built from salavge model.


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"Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own."
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave
The main question about survial mode is, is every explorable planet surviable? If the my ship is destroyed in a battle orbiting a planet and I surive by leaping out a hole in the bridge in a drop suit and then free falling through planet''s atmosphere and landing in the middle of a barren desert world, can I be assured of survial? Will I always be able to find food, water, shelter and means of leaving the planet? Or will I just have to wait and see if I die of thirst before the giant worms eat me. If not every place is surviable or only surviable with specilized equipment, does that mean that if I get stuck on one of those planets my only hope is to have an eariler saved game?



-----------------------------------------------------
"Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own."
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave



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You could give the captain "nine lives" or something, so if you wind up on a deserted world, with no supplies, no communications gear, and no transportation, you''ll slowly die of thirst, but a miracle will occur. You''ll be crawling over a sand dune, singing quietly in your madness, and then collapse. Then you wake up in the medical wing of the nearest space station, with one of your allies(see nemesis thread) looking over you. "That was a close one. We went to dig up some quaternary hydro-butyl alanine-3 and we wind up with a dried-up space captain! How do you feel?"

That might work a few times, or as long as you have a good enough friend in the mining/pirate/terraforming/military/whatever career to get you. You lose a month or so, take a temporary penalty to your strength and some of your skills (which can be recovered) and you lose your ship.

Better than perma-death, anyway.

@Wavinator:

I guess the water system could be used as well, but it seems to me that two systems that do the same thing seem a little redundant (by definition). Maybe if you could get water into the "rationing system", and just have a commodity called "sustenance" that gives all the nutritive benefits of a home-cooked meal but doesn''t do anything for morale, since it tastes like cardboard stew. Think of the "Tasty Wheat" scene in The Matrix.

That way, you only really have to deal with one "eat-to-live" dynamic. Actually acquiring water and food from different sources could be done, I suppose, but don''t get too technical here. Unless you want players to be retiring from spaceflight and enjoying an exremely complex game of "live on a mountaintop on mars".


If your crew members get too hungry, they could turn to cannibalism...

Pretty gruesome, but you could do this...

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If only I could just write them down...
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quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
Are there any side effects to the procedure? Perhaps Instead of drinking water the player has to drink an ionized solution to recharge and replace their nanotech.



There''s a System bar, a twin of health (actually, in the middle of it graphics wise) that measures the nano. It gets replaced in medical procedures, as the post-apocalyptic setting makes the process more risky and less routine than taking a shot or drinking a potion. (Storywise, that is.)


quote:

Perhaps there could be hunger bar and thirst bar, they stay at zero as long as the player is able to eat at every day. If they can''t eat the bar begins to fill slowly, say 1% every 3 hours. Each food could have a hunger reduction stat, eating that food reduces the hunger bar by its hunger reduction stat. However hunger can only be reduced once every twelve hours, so eating a lot of food would only provide the reduction benefit of the food with highest reduction stat the rest is essentially wasted. The hunger bar would reduces all stats and skill by its propotinal to its current value. So if the play is 5% hungry and then all their stats and skills would be reduced by 5%.



The main trouble I see for you as a player is that you suddenly wouldn''t be able to achieve skills that are on a threshold, because of food. And if you were on the threshold of hunger itself, you''d have to wait a certain number of hours before you could fix the problem.

Am I misunderstanding you?

quote:

Parsona 2: eternal punishment allowed you to eat food, it had the effect of temporarly increasing stats, the actual stats and increase depended on the food you ate, the effect where only tempory however and you couldn''t eat anything while you where under the effect of another food. Perhaps the same could be applied here? Rather then having all food permantly change stats, make the changes tempory. There could be specific substance that could provide a perment change but they should be uncommon and perhaps not things that players would normally consider "food".


You know, this is interesting. If you wanted the cold resistance, what I saw was that the food would give you small changes toward it, that may or may not help in the situation you were in. If you had to get into a low temperature room to perform repairs sometime in the next couple of days, for instance, you could eat food over a couple of meal periods and start giving yourself some defense. Same too if you were preparing to go into battle with a certain creature or race.

I like the idea that the effects don''t stay permanent because they give you a reason to keep eating even if you''re only dealing with the same challenge.

quote:

Rather then allow the player to do this whenever they sleep, it might be better to have a special faciliy that is required to do this. Say the Transendance chamber, a special chamber that the player has to pay to use, they can be found at diffrent ports and even purchased at a ridculious fee for the ship. You could have diffrent version of the chamber from the pristine high tech model to the bootleg built from salavge model.



Technically, there are a bunch of different "pods" planned for skilling and leveling up stats. This was just one more way of adding points for those truly dedicated players, and those who might (in an open ended environment) find themselves faced with a challenge, stuck and unable to level up past it (you can tell I''m paranoid about the player becoming stuck, can''t you :/)

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Just waiting for the mothership...
--------------------Just waiting for the mothership...
quote:
Original post by Nathaniel Hammen
If your crew members get too hungry, they could turn to cannibalism...

Pretty gruesome, but you could do this...



Let''s see, got rules for attacking an ally... now, converting an ally to food...?

I''m not sure how I''d even begin to handle this one (let alone what the parents would say... )

Drop body icon onto stove???? Perhaps we shouldn''t even go there.



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Just waiting for the mothership...
--------------------Just waiting for the mothership...
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quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
The main question about survial mode is, is every explorable planet surviable?



No. About 1/2 are hostile without some form of protection from hard radiation, portable atmosphere and supplies. Of the remainder, about 40% are marginally habitable due to the monsters in the game, or bacteria, creatures or extreme environmental conditions. The remaining 10% are just fine, but only a small portion of those are inhabited.

quote:

If the my ship is destroyed in a battle orbiting a planet and I surive by leaping out a hole in the bridge in a drop suit and then free falling through planet''s atmosphere and landing in the middle of a barren desert world, can I be assured of survial?



Cool scenario! If you''re in an orbit-to-ground suit, you''re alive for as long as the suit has supplies in all but a few environments (planet with oceans of magma, a mercury style world with extreme infalling heat and radiation, or a gas giant, where you''ll be crushed).

Let''s say you do get to the ground. You never even see your meters for rations or oxygen, nor any meteres for heat or pressure, because you''re buttoned up.

Optionally, you can pull up a paper doll and click some settings on the suit-- open faceplate, say. If there''s breathable atmosphere outside, you not only conserve your suit supplies, you still don''t get an oxygen meter.

It''s when you''ve got a hole in your suit on an airless world and no patch kit that you have to worry.

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Will I always be able to find food, water, shelter and means of leaving the planet?



I am increasing leaning toward an idea of prefab shelters in various states of repair dotting most planets. So even if you''re on an airless world, you may still be able to get to a small utility dome with a cheap transmitter that can call for help. The determining factor for this, though, would whether you have enough supplies to get to a shelter.

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Or will I just have to wait and see if I die of thirst before the giant worms eat me.



It''s very possible that you could land on a planet with high saline content, rich (but undrinkable) oceans, no water holes and no supplies. Maybe you''ve crashlanded, maybe you''ve been hijacked by mutineers or pirates, maybe you got lost wandering away from your single-man shuttle while exploring. In these cases, I regret to say that you''d be hosed.

Do you think such a case would be a gameplay "show stopper?"

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If not every place is surviable or only surviable with specilized equipment, does that mean that if I get stuck on one of those planets my only hope is to have an eariler saved game?



Philosophically, I like a game to just kill me if I can''t progress further. Let''s say the game either rescues you by having some ally or neutral swoop in on your signal, or the game calculates whether or not you have the supplies and randomly sets a shelter down near you (out of site, of course).

Is it better for you to eventually know that you can never be hurt, but not have to save frequently, or is it better for the universe to just be what it is and you have to learn to survive in it?

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Just waiting for the mothership...
--------------------Just waiting for the mothership...
quote:
Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
You could give the captain "nine lives" or something, so if you wind up on a deserted world, with no supplies, no communications gear, and no transportation, you''ll slowly die of thirst, but a miracle will occur. You''ll be crawling over a sand dune, singing quietly in your madness, and then collapse. Then you wake up in the medical wing of the nearest space station, with one of your allies(see nemesis thread) looking over you. "That was a close one. We went to dig up some quaternary hydro-butyl alanine-3 and we wind up with a dried-up space captain! How do you feel?"

That might work a few times, or as long as you have a good enough friend in the mining/pirate/terraforming/military/whatever career to get you. You lose a month or so, take a temporary penalty to your strength and some of your skills (which can be recovered) and you lose your ship.

Better than perma-death, anyway.



This definitely could work, but if you''ve only got a small pool of friends it starts getting suspicious. Technically, though, you''re supposed to be in a recovering universe teaming with life, so it''s not unfeasible that you get rescued by first a friend, then a samaritan, then a survey ship, then a probe, yada yada yada...

What might also be interesting is that not all rescues might be good. You could get rescued by pirates or slavers, an enemy faction, or a race in the game that lives to bodyjack people.

Also, though it''s a bit cheesy, I like the idea of a clone bank. Every time you die, any clones you have on file get activated and you start out back home. The clone is only as good as the last time you updated him, and updating costs money. So you could restart with a deleveled character.



quote:

I guess the water system could be used as well, but it seems to me that two systems that do the same thing seem a little redundant (by definition). Maybe if you could get water into the "rationing system", and just have a commodity called "sustenance" that gives all the nutritive benefits of a home-cooked meal but doesn''t do anything for morale, since it tastes like cardboard stew. Think of the "Tasty Wheat" scene in The Matrix.



This is a good point, and I''m going to have to think carefully whether or not it''s all that interesting to have to search for both. I always ask "what are the interesting situations that arise from success or failure?" Food can be interesting, but there are only negative status effects like poisoning that I can see arising out of water, or problems with dehydration.

This is a good example of the gameplay / sim dichotomy, and having to pick which is best. I do like the idea that water gives you a seperate meter to balance, as in the Sims. But I don''t like how nitpicky it is. (It''s like the Bladder meter in the Sims, just an annoyance because it doesn''t yeild anything but ridiculous results on failure, and not terribly interesting to watch).

quote:

Actually acquiring water and food from different sources could be done, I suppose, but don''t get too technical here. Unless you want players to be retiring from spaceflight and enjoying an exremely complex game of "live on a mountaintop on mars".


What''s the matter, don''t you want to be shivering in artic wastes trying to convert your laser''s lense to a magnifying glass so you can have potable water? Yeah, I hear you, this is just an ajunct mode for veracity''s sake, and there only to give you a reason to role play through the motions.



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Just waiting for the mothership...
--------------------Just waiting for the mothership...
quote:

quote:

Perhaps there could be hunger bar and thirst bar, they stay at zero as long as the player is able to eat at every day. If they can''t eat the bar begins to fill slowly, say 1% every 3 hours. Each food could have a hunger reduction stat, eating that food reduces the hunger bar by its hunger reduction stat. However hunger can only be reduced once every twelve hours, so eating a lot of food would only provide the reduction benefit of the food with highest reduction stat the rest is essentially wasted. The hunger bar would reduces all stats and skill by its propotinal to its current value. So if the play is 5% hungry and then all their stats and skills would be reduced by 5%.



The main trouble I see for you as a player is that you suddenly wouldn''t be able to achieve skills that are on a threshold, because of food. And if you were on the threshold of hunger itself, you''d have to wait a certain number of hours before you could fix the problem.

Am I misunderstanding you?



Why is that a problem? If the player is just in the threshold for success then little things would cause them to fail. They didn''t eat yesterday so there a little groggy and hungry and can''t concentrate as well.

Remember that this hunger bar only starts taking effect if they missed the last meal time. So if they are suffering from hungery then they can eat, if for whatever reason they can''t eat then their abilites will continue to degrade until they are able to eat. The bar doesn''t completely empty after each time you eat to represent malnutrition and other ailments. So if you didn''t eat for five days the bar would be at 40%, eating an able would reduce the bar to 35% percent and stop any futhur increase for another 12 hours.


If your really worried about people getting stranded on planets, why not use the nanites? Perhaps its standard produceure to install a nano distress beacon/identify in all travelers kind of like a high tech passport. It also has the second function of being a distress beacon that can be actived in case of emergancy and it transmits a signal to alert passing ships.

You could take it a step further and have it so that the department of stellar cartography places small nav/relay satilites in every system they chart. These satilites rebrodcast distress beacons at more powerful frequency, provide lost ships with new star charts and positional information.

-----------------------------------------------------
"Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own."
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave
quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
quote:

The main trouble I see for you as a player is that you suddenly wouldn''t be able to achieve skills that are on a threshold, because of food. And if you were on the threshold of hunger itself, you''d have to wait a certain number of hours before you could fix the problem.



Why is that a problem? If the player is just in the threshold for success then little things would cause them to fail. They didn''t eat yesterday so there a little groggy and hungry and can''t concentrate as well.





Consider the case of an emergency, where the ship is dead in space, the reactor is leaking radiation, and life support is running low. If the problem itself isn''t time sensitive, then the player is just stuck waiting, which isn''t favorable in and of itself unless you can fast forward time. But if the problem is time sensitive, then the player now dies because they didn''t eat. While it works for the system, as a tale it''s not very heroic. It also doesn''t take into account the fact that people sharpen under danger.

Of course, I could add some mechanism by which all your skills go up in danger because of adrenaline and need, but do you see how this is now getting unweildy? It''s a mechanic to balance a mechanical flaw.

quote:

Remember that this hunger bar only starts taking effect if they missed the last meal time. So if they are suffering from hungery then they can eat, if for whatever reason they can''t eat then their abilites will continue to degrade until they are able to eat. The bar doesn''t completely empty after each time you eat to represent malnutrition and other ailments. So if you didn''t eat for five days the bar would be at 40%, eating an able would reduce the bar to 35% percent and stop any futhur increase for another 12 hours.



I see what you''re saying but I think this is too severe to be playable. OTOH, it would make players be DARNED sure to eat!


quote:

If your really worried about people getting stranded on planets, why not use the nanites? Perhaps its standard produceure to install a nano distress beacon/identify in all travelers kind of like a high tech passport. It also has the second function of being a distress beacon that can be actived in case of emergancy and it transmits a signal to alert passing ships.

You could take it a step further and have it so that the department of stellar cartography places small nav/relay satilites in every system they chart. These satilites rebrodcast distress beacons at more powerful frequency, provide lost ships with new star charts and positional information.



I like this idea in combination with the supply huts concept. That way, no matter what, the player can always get out of a jam.


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Just waiting for the mothership...
--------------------Just waiting for the mothership...

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