quote: Original post by billy_zelsnack
>MichaelT wrote:
>Since a huge number of people playing CS(for example) are using >an illegal copy (you can doubt me if you want) you''ll have to >realize that those copies are *all* illegal.

CS runs needs a server to run and uses a huge key-space. If there is piracy going on, then Valve is allowing it on purpose. At any point they can just revoke duplicate CD keys.

>That loss of profit is indeed due to theft. Theft is illegal, >correct?

Technically it is not theft. It is copyright infringement.

I''m not exactly sure what we are arguing about. I''ll just state my general stance. People are going to copy things no matter what. It is impossible to stop them. The best thing to do is to just make it less than trivial to copy your software to prevent the majority of casual copying. Any business revolves around the model that everyone must go out of their way to be honest and "do the right thing" then that business deserves to go down the toilet. People are just not like that. Throwing laws and lawyers at the problem is not the way to solve the problem, a new business plan is.

It''s not impossible to stop them with client/server models of game.

quote: Original post by billy_zelsnack At any point they can just revoke duplicate CD keys.

Given two users with the same CD key, which one do you revoke? One of them is a legitimate customer.

You revoke them both and require proof of purchase to issue a new one.

Dan Marchant
Obscure Productions (www.obscure.co.uk)
Game Development & Design consultant

Or just revoke them both... (and grab the extra information you hid inside the key-then put it somewhere they wouldn''t like it).

How about giving (in a PC game), just an Graphics engine and a scripting engine.

The program contacts your server and asks for the levels, scripts ect.

The whole thing is asymetrically encrypted, using the serial key and the users system config. for the keygen.

Take users'' systems config. -> md5 it
Take individual key code -> md5 it
Mix them together
Make a rather large Prime from them
Send the server your key code
Send the server the mixed md5''s
recieve the levels, scripts, rest of exe (self changing exe) ect. individually encrypted.
And change your codes on different levels, ie.
code1 -> function -> xor 255 -> code2

Add your checking inside the scripts. byte-code compile the scripts. also allow your scripts to run asm programs, load/read registers, ect.

Oh yes and when compiling, use a genetic compiler (uses Ga''s to compile your source into an exe. - very slow to compile, but quick and or small to run)

And Add booby-traps (like inside your render loop, add a line that there not supposed to go to- unless something went wrong)
like remove interupts and send 0''s to the VGA output. (causing the computer to crash with a black screen). Activate a remote-acess terminal, then braudcast that fact to the world (on the crackers computer).

> The total demand curve should really be totally vertical -
> the price won''t affect the number of people who *want* the
> game, it''ll only affect the number of people who can buy it.

The demand curve is about the number of people who are willing to buy at set price point; it has nothing to do with ''wanting''.

> I believe my diagram already shows it.

You are skewing the entire demand curve to the right, thus decreasing the overall elasticity for all market segments. Yet, you conclude that "the black market exists to satisfy this ineffective demand by supplying at
a lower price" thus pointing to a price-elastic demand. I see a contradiction here. Below is what I had in mind:



-cb

quote: Original post by cbenoi1
> The total demand curve should really be totally vertical -
> the price won''t affect the number of people who *want* the
> game, it''ll only affect the number of people who can buy it.

The demand curve is about the number of people who are willing to buy at set price point; it has nothing to do with ''wanting''.

No, that''s only effective demand - people who are willing and able. Total demand includes people who are not able (ineffective demand); the price does not effect that. Most of the time ''demand'' refers to effective demand, but in this case I''m being more precise.

quote:
> I believe my diagram already shows it.

You are skewing the entire demand curve to the right, thus decreasing the overall elasticity for all market segments. Yet, you conclude that "the black market exists to satisfy this ineffective demand by supplying at
a lower price" thus pointing to a price-elastic demand. I see a contradiction here. Below is what I had in mind:

I''m afraid your image doesn''t show up for me... I''ve updated the diagram, take another look at it.

As the price increases, the gap between the effective demand and the total demand increases (as you''d expect - more and more of the people who *want* the thing can''t afford it).

The black market exists to supply that gap.

Ok, I think I understand what you are trying to say. But I still don''t agree with it. (i.e. I agree with the essay''s discussion and conclusion, but the SD graph is wrong)

> The black market exists to supply that gap.

Then this is not a demand thing, but a supply issue. Piracy increases supply by shifting the supply curve to the right on the quantity axis. The SD intersection price is lower, as expected; we''re talking here about the ''average'' price of a game title. If you add in my kinked demand curve, the intersection point is pushed even faster into the ''value bin'' area where price elasticity is lesser. Piracy could then be defined as ''lost producer surplus'' in the more traditional sense.

-cb

> However, it''s getting increasingly difficult to do that
> - DVD case games seem to be the way of the future
> (and we may not like it, but it''s cheaper to produce
> and a more efficient use of shelf space for the retailers).

It''s all about margins and shelf rotation for retailers. There is a relation between form factor and the two items above for maximizing profits per shelf. Retailers don''t mind the form factor as long as the margins and the shelf rotation are also in line. Besides, a larger form factor has a better marketing real-estate; talk to cereal box manufacturers about this! Many AAA titles are still shipping in larger boxes; and when their sales decline we start seeing them in DVD boxes. By the time a title gets in this stage, I''d suspect piracy for such a title is much lower. There is thus some opportunity to bundle non-software game play elements when a title has just come out and that''t when piracy is most active; you can always remove it when the tiels reaches EOL.

-cb

quote: Original post by Nice Coder

Take users'' systems config. -> md5 it
Take individual key code -> md5 it
Mix them together
Make a rather large Prime from them
Send the server your key code
Send the server the mixed md5''s
recieve the levels, scripts, rest of exe (self changing exe) ect. individually encrypted.
And change your codes on different levels, ie.
code1 -> function -> xor 255 -> code2

A better copy protection always comes at a price... It places a greater burden on the legitimate consumers. What if I don''t want to be on the internet just to play a game? Maybe I have a slow modem, or maybe my computer is not easily connected to the internet. (e.g. a laptop away from home)

Your solution also has another problem. If this is on a subscription basis, what if you don''t want to host the server anymore for this game? Does this mean that nobody is allowed to play it anymore? Keep in mind that each game you release will add more overhead to the server. At some point the cost of running the server will exceed the increase in profits, and you will have to cut support.

Such a solution would work, but it is not an ideal solution.