I think things are shapeing up nicely for the inde developer scene...One thing that helps is that the PC tech is much more stable now then it was under DOS (meaning all the extra overhead for supporting different hardware configs and such)...

The biggest plus for Inde PC developers is that a lot more people are buying into computers...meaning there are a host of more traditional console gamers (and some who have never played video games) who are now takeing their first steps in PC land...so a console type Inde game on the PC could find a audiance...erm...I mean something like a platformer...Mario64...Zelda type pick up and play games which the mainstream PC publishers seem to completely ignore...Hmm...could even see about getting a pack in deal with one of the PC gamepad manufactures

But really...the thing that holds the industry back isn''t exactly the publishers, or the marketing people...but the gamers themselves...for every cool little innovative title sold, gamers buy dozens of copies of the lastest flavor in FPS, RTS, RPGs...then seem shocked that there seems to be nothing new anymore...

As far as money...make games to earn a liveing, make games because to love doing it...you are in the wrong buisness if your big goal is to make money...for every "overnight success" like id software and Rockstar games...I can show you hundreds of realistate agents who have made just as much money in LESS time and with LESS effort.

I''d love to make games the way garage bands make music. They get gigs and sell t-shirts and cd''s at the gigs as well as online, and in local shops.

The way I see it is a garage game developer would make probably small, probably 2d games that were high on fun and multiplayer to. Then they could go to gigs (lan party''s) and sell there highly addictive, fun, playable game for like a fiver and maybe sell some t-shirts. As well as sell there game online and in some local or not so local shops.

I think this could work and I''ll probably try it in a year or two.

Well I think it would solve alot if the industry would grow up a bit,95% of the industry still lacks any skill when it comes to selling their product. Just look at the tons of bad homepages.....crappy relations with other sites....really crap video spots on tv and so we can go on.

I agrue that this should be solved by getting more countries to train more student in all facets of making games. So the supply side becomes Bigger has more diversity and is certainly more competitive. It is only in their interest cause games is probably one of the biggest grow market for commercial use in the world.

All the people who complain that there is already too much competition are only fixed on details like certain type of games or certain regions.

Get more diversifaction in the market and more customers are drawn to the market..and again only if you properly market the game.



Economics is a subject that does not greatly respect one''s wishes.
-Nikita S. Khrushchev

More target markets need to be hit. Video Games aren''t played just by acne covered teenagers anymore. Almost everyone has a ps2, xbox, cube or a PC. Cellfones even have games now. Yet still there is a giant flood of fps''s, redundant rpg''s, mmorpgs (even more redundant), and racing games. Simulations have blown up to since the craze of The Sims has hit.
Look back on the industry at some very unexpected hits. Parappa the rappa appealed to all those hiphopper kids and no one expected such a dumb simple game to sell so much. Deer Hunter appealed to fathers of children who owned consoles.. Who woulda ever thought it would spawn a million clones in 5 years? The Sims! Oh man.. how did that one get popular? Must be all those crazy women that love those reality shows.

What about games for markets like.. expectant mothers? University students? people that love country music? musicians? Games that are like sappy dramas or romantic comedys? Games that are more like the movie TheGame where you don''t exactly know whats going on. WhoDunnit games. Games that appeal to the more esotheric people.
We also need more redneck games. Redneck rampage isn''t considered one. its a horrible fps clone. What about a firecracker simulator where all you did was blow things up? a REAL 4x4 game, not 4x4 evolution. Target practice games, like duckhunt, that require a gun of sorts.

there''s plenty of more markets that still have doors unopened. The platforms are out there to reach them, but the markets aren''t coming because there is nothing there for them.


The only way I see indy publishing happening is if it is pushed through shareware facets on the internet. The reason i don''t think this works to well at the moment cause commerce over the internet isn''t quite at its most streamlined yet. Shareware isn''t pushed hard enough either, and most people don''t understand the concept of shareware anymore.
Indy developing is getting ready to explode. Communities are growing, sites are building. There is going to be a new revolution in game creating soon enough. Whether the independant movement will be sheep or herders though is unknown. Hopefully we as developers do have creativity and we haven''t just been blaming all this cloning of software on the suits when its really just us. And Hopefully the suits won''t stamp out this independent wildfire in fear of losing profits.

Hmmmm... this thread has become interesting. It seems like most people think the ideal situation would be indie games the way they are now but with a lot more visibility.

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Look back on the industry at some very unexpected hits. Parappa the rappa appealed to all those hiphopper kids and no one expected such a dumb simple game to sell so much. Deer Hunter appealed to fathers of children who owned consoles.. Who woulda ever thought it would spawn a million clones in 5 years? The Sims! Oh man.. how did that one get popular? Must be all those crazy women that love those reality shows.

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Heh, both Parappa and Sims are good innovative games (I love Parappa) that get good reviews and press and are generally respected within the game industry. The people that don''t respect these games (especially the Sims) are the hardcore "I only play the most popular online FPS, RTS and MMORPGs and everything else sucks" gamers.

i don''t play any new fps, mmorpgs or strategy games. I''m still living in the age of starcraft an earlier. I dislike the sims for the reason that it is the stupidest video game around. Its a simpleton game.

That''s what I would say about it... but it''s pretty good.

Uberness...

I could complain about the games that are out there right now, I could complain about the publishers who request and will only fund crap clones, I could complain about the masses who want and buy only crap clones, I could even complain about the whiny developers who want everything, but no matter what I complain about, it would be inadequate.

I notice that there is a wide range of game dev style out there and once you become professional you, to some extent, are part of the problem. I have been involved with a lot of people who go and find programmers that want to work on their project and think that maybe this person is great at doing what I have so much trouble doing: recruiting. Then I hear the rest of the details.... things like "When you get funding" and "I normally get paid x amount, so when you can afford that". These game designers who apparently have great recruiting skills really don''t. There is a huge difference between a dev that will work on your project for the pure love of it and someone who is only willing to work on your project when you can pay them AT LEAST as much as they''re currently getting paid. The first is a dev that loves the work, the second is a career opportunist.

I can sympathize though. I have a wife and 2 young kids, I need to pay my bills and make ends meet day to day also. However, when you are ready to quit an industry that you started out loving, perhaps you are simply doing things the wrong way. Maybe you need to find another company to work for, or at least find a company that will allow you to work on personal projects so long as they don''t conflict with your work for them. If you love games and can''t find a game company that will allow you to do work that is intriguing, then maybe you need to find a company that you can program stuff just for pay and then work on personal projects in the gaming industry that will feed your love for the work.

Being fair though, I''m not so sure that it''s a game design issue. I think it''s a game industry culture issue. Game publishers want to minimize risk and maximize return. How do you do the first? Don''t take big chances on untried paths. We know the big problem with this though: No new genres, no intriguing technology development, no work where the developers feel that they''re doing anything interesting.

So we come to an impasse. Game developers want to do interesting and groundbreaking work, the publishers want them to do as little actual groundbreaking (read: research level) development as possible unless the company has a history of groundbreaking development. What is the end result? Developers who feel like they''re doing what they got into this industry to avoid: work. Boring, "time to make the doughnuts", live in a cubicle, 9-5, send you to an early grave work.

What are the solutions? Change your workplace, leave the company and let them know EXACTLY why you are leaving, in almost excruciating detail. Sure, you might be taking a pay cut to go elsewhere. You might not even be doing game development, but if you''re not, then there is little reason for you to not do game development in your spare time, such as evenings and weekends. ID software didn''t start with game industry insiders, it was a few guys who just wanted to make games that they liked and be on the cutting edge of game development, or at least the technology. If you want to do that, you need to find like minded people. Sure, you might have just cut your pay by 25%, but you''re doing what you want in a way that will keep you happy. The other solutions involve getting into management, but nobody likes that dirty word

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Original post by iNfuSeD
i don''t play any new fps, mmorpgs or strategy games. I''m still living in the age of starcraft an earlier. I dislike the sims for the reason that it is the stupidest video game around. Its a simpleton game.

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See... this, imo, is one of the big reasons the game industry is lacking innovation. Novel ideas that don''t involve traditional game related activities and themes (running, jumping, fighting, shooting, driving) are often dismissed by hardcore gamers and developers because they see them as stupid or simple, even though they are no more stupid or simple than the latest FPS or your favorite oldschool console RPG, or whatever you happen to be into.

"Mainstream" games suck. And they cost too much. They''re too expensive, have teams 10 times larger than they need to be and take 10 times longer to make than they should. They''re also never any fun to play.

The ideal game industry would see the immediate destruction and banishment of EA, Take Two, Valve, Black Isle, Hasbro, LionHead... all of those so-called "visionaries" churning out these retarded titles.

The ideal game industry would put out fun games that are affordable. It would also be fun to work in.

Oh wait, my company already does that!