Upgrades and Modifications are very different. You don''t have to worry about spending a lot of time upgrading because that''s a totally new part. Like a new weapon or sensor array. (most ships are not able to have new engines as they are built into the design. The ships are not snap-together ships. Some parts of the engine might be replaceable but for the most part, no. There are other ways of making it faster. And like i said... you could alwasy get a mechanic to do it for you
As far as: "If it''s damaged, it will get decreased so you might have to be constantly trying to increase it." I might stay away from that now. Maybe lean towards you just ahve to repair it. Maybe I''ll have the option to "save" your modifications so if something goes wrong, or you buy a new piece, you can put the modifications on the new part. There''s a lot in the air right now of what I might or might not do.
All ships are useable off the lot. Nothing needs to be modified to work.
I like the black box idea. I don''t think i''ll allow modifications to get to the point where you get the perfect mod. I think each mod will have at least one or two drawbacks. Nothing too serious but it would allow for people to pick which drawback they want when buying mods.
Anyone here played Mindrover(?) ? It was this game where you had to build a vehicle and you had this screen where you could drag components onto your ship. You then had to wire them together, making an AI of sorts. But anyway, let's say I drag a missile onto the ship, and a sensor of some sort. I draw a wire between the two, linking them. Then I click the radar and select the option to trigger connected component when triggered.
I don't know if this description helps any, but I found it very fun.
EDIT: I would definetly pay for a well implemented simulation of this sort. I like the idea of being able to build your own components or systems, and whatnot. I do agree that you should be able to buy off the shelf components, but I think half the fun of such a game would be building your own. A space sim where you could wire your ship > all other MMOGs.
I liked rmsgrey idea about a theory in physics that run through the game, allowing players that understand it to make great ships. Then I''d like to add this: books/manuals. The player should be able to buy material in the game that he/she can read and learn more about -how- the things work.
This is kinda leaning to something with multiplayer I think? Where you can either battle other "home-made" ships or trade the ships. Try selling this idea to E.V.E.
}-- Programmer/Gamer/Dreamer --{
[ ThumbView: Adds thumbnail support for DDS, PCX, TGA and 16 other imagetypes for Windows XP Explorer. ] [ Chocolate peanuts: Brazilian recipe for home made chocolate covered peanuts. Pure coding pleasure. ]
I think its a great idea. But, then again, I''ve been toying with the same idea since I was a kid and I was watching Empire Strikes Back and playing Privateer at the same time. Thought how fun it would be if I could do repairs instead of my Repair Bot, or if I knew more about the nature of the engines in the WC universe that I could tweak the power systems to give me a power boost while running away from milita.
Though I think that keeping it accessable to most people who play the game is very important. Personally I think a good comprimise would be something like the following:
Allow players to purchace premade upgrades (or entire ships for that matter) at regular stations, for people who just want to play without being the tweaker type. Let people play the game the way they want to, if they want to just buy a ship, fly around and never crack the hood, and take it to the shop every time it breaks, then let them.
Allow players to do simple upgrades and modifications with more or less simple plug-and-play cards in slots. You have to know a little about what you are doing but its mostly self explanitory. Much like putting in a new PCI card, daunting for someone who has never opened thier computer, but a walk in the park for anyone else because it basically only fits in one kind of slot, pop it in and you are done (more or less). However, because you are just "customizing" a peice of equipment there would main sections of the equipment that would still be unchanged.
Lastly, you could have a even more complex level of technology. Much like a circuit board emulator, you could purchace indivual compoents and build your own special boards to plug in, or even change main components. However this would be a designers nightmare, as you would have to completely invent theoretical "electrical" components and specify how each one of them reacts, adjusts and changes the flow of "enegry" through the circuit. To be sucessful there would have to be almost limitless combinations of components, and they would all have to be balanced by performance/cost/reliability and so on.
But with that level, you could have some really interesting things happen.
The skill of designing custom subsystems would be a very profitable trait in the game. Players could build and sell technology they design, and make a decent profit without ever leaving a base.
This would also lead to a very interesting economy system where deep space shit salvaging and "junk" dealers would be just as profitable as merchant hauler or bounty hunter. Making money scrapping old ships for parts and subsystems, and finding old wrecks in space and hauling them in and selling off the parts to tweakers and technicians.
And because of the vast complex nature of the technology represented in the game, you could have printed manuals (think MechWarrior, D&D, or StarWars RPG source books) on components and circuts. These books could cover circuit designs, how they work, and common parts for the indiviual subsystems. Have separate books on weapon design, sheilds systems, engines, navcomputers, and so on. Kind of like hint books for those who are really interested in getting into the game.
But... like i said, a designers nightmare. The Design Document would about as thick as a set of encyclopedias, because just about the ammount of data, history, and gameplay you would have to design.
To clarify what I was thinking about black boxes: these don''t represent state-of-the-art PUSD equivalents, instead (to extend the fantasy RPG analogy) they''re your basic longswords (+1?) - they do the job, they''re reliable, but you aren''t going to be taking shortcuts doing the Kessel run (in however many parsecs...) with them. At least, that''s true for the stock black boxes that anyone can buy anytime anyplace. For player-designed black boxes, the performance depends on the manufacturer, but in most cases, firstly because they''re player-made, they''ll be more likely to have bugs or compatibility issues, and secondly, the "plug and play" nature of the stock black boxes reflects a number of compromises made in the design, so while you may be able to add a few plusses to the stock components and still have a pretty universal component, by the time you get the PUSD equivalent, it''s highly tuned to the rest of the ship it''s in, so that, for example, upgrading the weaponry from photon torpedo to quantum torpedo means that you need to reconfigure the warp coils, reset the plasma injectors, retune the sensor array and turn the shield generator on its side otherwise you can only reach warp 5, and that''s when you''re flying backwards...
quote:Original post by Seriema I liked rmsgrey idea about a theory in physics that run through the game, allowing players that understand it to make great ships. Then I''d like to add this: books/manuals. The player should be able to buy material in the game that he/she can read and learn more about -how- the things work.
This is kinda leaning to something with multiplayer I think? Where you can either battle other "home-made" ships or trade the ships. Try selling this idea to E.V.E.
}-- Programmer/Gamer/Dreamer --{
sorry to shoot this down, but games are still a form of entertainment for the majority. Your thinking in very tight terms here, and making things really complicated with books. Its a cool idea, but your definately not going to bring a broad user base
Well, if you''re going to have RPG elements, then maybe your puzzle system could take into account both the character''s ability and the player''s. As you complete puzzles, and do them well and quickly, your character will learn about the system, so that at later times you can either take an active role in resolving the problem, just press the "do it to the best of your ability" button, or perhaps some combination of the two. Include a "hint" option, and depending on the skill of your character, the hints would be more or less elucidating.
I dunno. There are a lot of good ideas in this thread, some of which are very complex. Good luck.
I like the idea of having consistant physics that are fixed in the game. I play a game where you can mine for resources. The only skill involved in surveying is that if you find something, there might be more nearby. But as far as finding it, it's just totally random. Minerals are supposed to be found in places where they would be rich... like at the bottom of a river or whatever. It's not. Or at least it should be possible to figure out how the game actually places resources or how ships work and be able to learn how to do things better.
I'd definitely have books and manuals in the game. But i'm thinking i might not write them. they will be writen by players and then published by myself (that way I won't let bogus stuff be written).
What i've thought about for ship mods is this: There is a formula for physics. Each part will modify and twist that formula. That way different parts will require a different setting for everything else. (Maybe but it's possible)
I don't think i'll scare anyone off with the complexity of the game. It's not required to do any of the complex stuff or to crack open a book of physics so you can learn this stuff. The modifications might give a performance increase of 25%. I'm not sure what the cap i want to put on it but it won't be something like 300%. Basically it will just be desirable by those people who want the best of the best.
..... weird. Somehow I triple posted.
[edited by - trapdoor on October 27, 2003 5:25:19 AM]
quote:Original post by Seriema I liked rmsgrey idea about a theory in physics that run through the game, allowing players that understand it to make great ships. Then I''d like to add this: books/manuals. The player should be able to buy material in the game that he/she can read and learn more about -how- the things work.
This is kinda leaning to something with multiplayer I think? Where you can either battle other "home-made" ships or trade the ships. Try selling this idea to E.V.E.
}-- Programmer/Gamer/Dreamer --{
sorry to shoot this down, but games are still a form of entertainment for the majority. Your thinking in very tight terms here, and making things really complicated with books. Its a cool idea, but your definately not going to bring a broad user base
I think you may have missed the point here - at least the way I was thinking about it (and, it appears, trapdoor too) is that you don''t need to know anything about the underlying physics to play, but it''s there, and it''s possible to research it, and doing so offers some tangible benefits (or at least some cool special effects). It''s like you hardly need to know anything about computers to buy and use an X-Box or sign on to and use AOL, but if you want to upgrade a PC, you need at least a screwdriver and some background knowledge (similarly if you''re planning to install and configure Linux - though the screwdriver probably isn''t needed!). If you really want to get the theoretically optimal performance, you''re going to have to know a lot about how various components interact (even with the pretty modular design of modern PCs) and possibly even make some of your own components (some friends of a friend once converted their PC to water-cooled - with major increase in safely usable CPU speed once they started overclocking it) for which you''ll want to have a solid grasp of at least some level of theory - but probably will lose a lot of modularity - with the water-cooled PC, I''m certain that the waterproofing not only took a lot of work to make safe in the first place, but also required reasonably frequent maintenance checks and made it tricky to upgrade the PC further...
I think that FAQs serve the purpose that the hypothetical manuals described here should.
Take a game like Tactics Ogre, for instance. You can play through the entire game and never actually notice the skill advances that each character class gets for a level-up. Ninjas get more agility, Berzerkers get more strength, etc., but the player doesn''t really need that information unless they want to fine-tune their combat group. The game is a deep, immersive experience without such detailed knowledge, and it becomes an engaging exercise in planning and training.
Few people have the patience and interest to document the subtleties of character development and stat growth, but those who do post their finding on GameFaqs or some such place and other players can go there to learn what they''ve discovered. Not all of them are 100% accurate, but many are very useful.
So might it be here. Build in the physics and scientific principles, and then offer a simple understanding to the players. If they want to buy the shiny parts and maybe pay someone to install or modify them, then great. They can enjoy your game. If they want to go out and get a bunch of FAQs and maybe experiment and write one of their own, super.
You know there''s going to be a hardcore group that get a Ph.D. in starship maintenance, and they will have a wonderful time doing that. There''s no reason why any point on the knowledge continuum can''t produce a fully entertaining gameplay experience.
But actually producing bona fide manuals is a bit of a stretch. Maybe an official web page or a published strategy guide, but the added expense and effort for something that players will eventually figure out for themselves might not be necessary. Use your judgement, of course.
