quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster

quote: Original post by Jay Barnson While the two disciplines are sometimes loathe to admit it, programming games isn''t all that different from programming anything else. Games just generate cooler screenshots.

I disagree, game are much more interactive and can immerse players, and when programming games you need speed speed speed!

From a programmer''s point of view, programming games is the same thing as programming anything else. They both require the same systematic view and implementation.

quote: Original post by VladR
You can surely find entry-level position today without experience. However, you must be willing to relocate to Europe. UK has lots of positions for beginners, so if your demo is better then that of others and your social skills are on par with your programming skills, no problem with getting the job.

If only it were that easy. There aren''t that many jobs for people with non-commercial experience. Even the so-called "Junior" positions often require 6 months to 1 years commercial programming experience (and there''s the same problem all across the UK IT sector). One agency I''m with lists over 190 jobs for programmers, yet only 6 were available for people with no commercial games experience. As you can imagine, competition is pretty tough.

Location is key though. There are two main game development "clusters" in the UK: Guildford (near London) and Dundee (Scotland). There are also smaller clusters of developers in Brighton, the Oxford-Warwick area and Liverpool.

[teamonkey]

I think it''s going to get harder before it gets easier. For the last couple of years the industry has been in a "consolidation" stage - even previously successful studios have been dissapearing or doing major belt-tightening.

quote: Original post by teamonkey

quote: Original post by VladR
You can surely find entry-level position today without experience. However, you must be willing to relocate to Europe. UK has lots of positions for beginners, so if your demo is better then that of others and your social skills are on par with your programming skills, no problem with getting the job.

If only it were that easy. There aren''t that many jobs for people with non-commercial experience. Even the so-called "Junior" positions often require 6 months to 1 years commercial programming experience (and there''s the same problem all across the UK IT sector). One agency I''m with lists over 190 jobs for programmers, yet only 6 were available for people with no commercial games experience. As you can imagine, competition is pretty tough.

Location is key though. There are two main game development "clusters" in the UK: Guildford (near London) and Dundee (Scotland). There are also smaller clusters of developers in Brighton, the Oxford-Warwick area and Liverpool.

[teamonkey]

While I don`t know about the UK IT sector in general, I`ve spoken to personal agencies and showed them my demo and although I have no previous so-called "commercial programming exprience", I was clearly told that there wouldn`t be a problem with getting a job for me considering all of programming for Avenger (except the sound programming, which I use a library for) has been made by me, which means I have a clear view of everything in the process of game creation. That is something that is valued more than just pure 6 months of previous experience in game studio where one could have been in position of tools programming, or just audio programming.


VladR
Avenger game

You might be in for a shock. It is in an agencies interests to get you to sign up so they are unlikely to tell you that you don''t have a chance or even that it might be tough. The truth is that there are a LOT of very experienced staff looking for jobs in the UK. Some I know have been looking for six or seven months because even the studios that have not shut down are limiting their growth.

Dan Marchant
Obscure Productions
Game Development & Design consultant

quote: You might be in for a shock. It is in an agencies interests to get you to sign up so they are unlikely to tell you that you don''t have a chance or even that it might be tough.

Well, not a shock actually. You have probably just different experience.
I`m talking about the agency that I sent my first demo to about a year ago (at which time it looked defeinitely much more simple and ugly as it is now) and was clearly told I don`t have a chance with such a demo because it is too simple. So they definitely didn`t want me to sign up and told me clearly it`s going to be impossible. "Please come back later with better demo. " was what I was told.
Now that was of course OK from their side and also from my side. I at least knew what is the base level of other demos, so I was OK with it and worked hard in my free time to improve the demo (although at that time I didn`t know that I`d be choosing the indie route later).

quote: Some I know have been looking for six or seven months

Hm, you`re saying this as if 6 months were totally unacceptable. It is of course a different situation if you`re unemployed and have great experience and have to wait some 6 months and pay the bills. But if you`re at other job, then 6 months are not that bad, IMO.
Well, of course, if you`re not willing to accept lower salary and work in some not so well-known company, or at bad location, then you`ll wait 8 months until you`re lucky and you get the position in some of the companies you`d like to work at.

Or are you trying to tell me, that the current situation in UK is such that junior positions are given mainly to experienced game programmers ? Then, why the hell do they call them "junior" positions ?
That would of course suck very much. Hopefully it`s not that bad...

VladR
Avenger game