quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster
I just want to say that i still think its possible to create the engine and technology, and great game (especially if you have the right ideas). And, with that get the attention of the publisher.

I am afraid I don''t agree, unless you have a large team and a lot of money. The reason is that the industry wont stand still and wait for you. While you are developing your engine all the other developers are taking their existing engines and making them better. Unless you can match their resources your engine technology will be out of date by the time it is finshed and that is even before you start to develop your game.

Sure you might just strike it lucky and get a game out of the same super high quality of Half Life (2) so people accept the out of date tech but it is not very likely.

For a start-up it is commercially much better to go with existing technology. Proven technology and reduced time to prototype/market are big plus points. Once you have a cushion of financial security, that is the time to start developing technology.

Dan Marchant
Obscure Productions
Game Development & Design consultant

> We would like to obtain publisher funding to do a licensed title.

You are swinging for the home run, so to speak. Your problem is: so is everyone else!

> {Mark Tanner} All the publisher wants to do is get a game at the lowest possible risk.

That pretty well sums it up. I suggest you read "Secrets of the Game Business" by Francois-Dominic Laramee to get a better gist of the publishing business and how to start your company on the right foot.

-cb

Another option, as some other people have suggested, you might start in the budget game category and create a title are two to build some revenue streams. Once you have a couple of successful titles, you could work on that big budget Demo to show to the publishers.

I can''t remember the name of the group, but they said that is their plan. They created the game called Orbz and its marketed through Garage Games (www.garagegames.com). Its a nice little game it seems to be selling well for them. They plan to make a few more budget titles, before they begin working on their ''dream'' title.

After you have demonstrated that your team has the ability to create a complete working game, then you may be taken seriously by a publisher.

quote: Original post by Obscure
I am afraid I don''t agree, unless you have a large team and a lot of money. The reason is that the industry wont stand still and wait for you. While you are developing your engine all the other developers are taking their existing engines and making them better. Unless you can match their resources your engine technology will be out of date by the time it is finshed and that is even before you start to develop your game.

I know you know a lot more than me on publishing reading on your site. But I think it''s possible to make a competitive game without licensing an engine. Publishers may not go for it, but anything is possible. The latest fad of cellphone and gba games hardly would require engine licensing. The demo scene has been putting out 3D gfx effects way ahead of their time. Things don''t go out of date if your the one setting the pace! However if you are not setting the pace use Renderware


J1M - good luck man!

quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster
The latest fad of cellphone and gba games hardly would require engine licensing.

True but those are the formats he is aiming to develop for. J1M''s post specifically mentions needing to license the Source or UT engine so clearly he is not talking about these platforms and so neither was I.

If he was to work on those platforms then he would still be unlikely to get publishers funding without industry experience. What is more as a new start-up developer with no track record Nintendo won’t grant him an AGB developer’s license. He would need to fund development of the first project in order to prove to people that he can do it.

quote: The demo scene has been putting out 3D gfx effects way ahead of their time.

You''re comparing street cars to land speed record cars. Demo coders have been around for years. The technology they create is designed to show off, not to be useable in a game. Games need to include more than just graphics. They need physics, AI, audio etc which all require system resources. Demos often use up all the system resources and leave no space/processing power for anything else.

quote: Things don''t go out of date if your the one setting the pace! However if you are not setting the pace use Renderware

But he won’t be setting the pace, which was the point I was making. 3 guys with no industry experience (or even 9 guys if he finds more) wont be competing with id software who have an entire team just to develop their engine.

Developing games is tough, even with a licensed engine. Is it possible to develop an engine, then a game and then get a publisher interested? Yes it is BUT it is a lot, lot tougher and your game play will need to be Half Life 3 standard cos your technology will almost certainly not be cutting edge by the time your game gets to market.

Of course all of this is irrelevant if you don''t have the $2-3 million needed to fund the development. So back to the original post.....

1. Publishers do licensed (film, TV, comic etc) games because they think that it reduces the risk of failure. They also believe that a new team with no industry experience increases risk. Therefor they wont hire you to do a licensed game as it makes no sense to increase their risks when what they want is reduced risk.

2. Funding. To get funding you must have.....
i. A full team already in place that has proven industry experience.
ii. Existing technology (a demo done using the actual engine u intend to use).
iii. The necessary paperwork (design, budget, schedule etc.)

If you don''t have those then the industry wont fund you as you are a bad risk. You will have to find a way to fund yourself.

Conclusion
You have four routes into games.
1. Develop for fun. Make games in your spare time for fun.
2. Finish your education, get jobs at existing developers that have a track record (and funding). Spend 5 or 6 years making games to get experience of full development, managing teams and running companies. While your at it build contacts in the industry so people know you and trust you as a good risk to invest in. Then set up your own dev company with publisher funding.
3. Ignore 2. Just find a team and start work with funding from FFS (friends, family or savings).
4. Do shareware. Develop a number of game, build a reputation and eventually after some years you may be able to get a publisher interested in funding a full title.
5. The mod scene. Keep on modding until your mod is as successful as CS and a publisher notices you.

Dan Marchant
Obscure Productions
Game Development & Design consultant

quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster
Another option, as some other people have suggested, you might start in the budget game category and create a title are two to build some revenue streams. Once you have a couple of successful titles, you could work on that big budget Demo to show to the publishers.

I can't remember the name of the group, but they said that is their plan. They created the game called Orbz and its marketed through Garage Games (www.garagegames.com). Its a nice little game it seems to be selling well for them. They plan to make a few more budget titles, before they begin working on their 'dream' title.

That would be 21-6 Productions



[edited by - Machaira on July 17, 2003 8:12:53 AM]

You are correct. We would never be intending to compete with HalfLife 2 in terms of technology. If anyone is interested you can check out what we have already done at this address:

http://www.planetunreal.com/jei/

Any feedback on how far this is in quality from a proper publisher demo would be appreciated. (Please note this was not created with that intention) Seems like there are some people who know what they are talking about here, which is usually not the case on the internet.

I would disagree the problem seems to be that on the internet EVERYONE knows what they are talking about. At least they think they do and they talk about it a lot

Dan Marchant
Obscure Productions
Game Development & Design consultant

[edited by - obscure on July 17, 2003 8:36:14 PM]

Hmm, I think you scared off all my replies Dan.