I''m currently doing some research on the game industry (as part of my study) and I have a couple of questions on the subject of starting game companies (more specifically starting game developers for game consoles). I''m fairly new to this subject so if I say something increadibly stupid please forgive me... One reason I''m posting this topis is because I was planning on mailing some studios to ask them questions and I didn''t want to look like a complete idiot (although that could still happen). I know there aren''t many companies that start out new in this industry without any experience (many companies start out by people already in the industry), still I know some excist (I remember seing a documentary on a brand new studio which was created by a small group of graduated students which was developing a rally game for the PS2). Ok, here are some of the things I''d like to know. Any help would really be appreciated. -When creating a new studio there is no reputation build up whatsoever. How does a new developer get attention from Publishers, the console developer (Nintendo/ Sony/ Microsoft), etc? I mean just going to Sony saying "Hi, I''m a student and I want to develop games for the PS2 so give me money" isn''t going to work. -I know that for development on consoles it''s necessary to have a development kit (I''ve seen development kits for amateurs on sale, but I think those are other ones). How does a new developer get one, especially in the case of new consoles that aren''t on the market yet (for example: how would a new company which was set up last week get his hands on a Playstation Portable development kit?). I could imagine that console developers like Sony and Nintendo wouldn''t want to give vital hard- and software of their new product to just some kids who think they can become the new Electronic Arts. -This one is about that same subject. Even if a new developer does get a new piece of development ware then how are they going to find people capable of doing anything with it. I''m no programmer but I could imagine it being very hard writing software for a completely new piece of hardware (same example: how would a programmer know what to do with a Playstation Portable Development Kit if he found one laying on his doorstep today)? I''m not sure but I think something like that is very complicated and needs people with many years of experience in the industry. -Which brings me to the next question. Where do new developers get the funds for creating their game. Take for example Level-5. They started out with creating Dark Cloud for the PS2 (that was their fisrt game). On that game worked quite a lot of people (I guess somewhere between 25 and 50). If you have 25 people working for you for twelve months at a salary of 2000 dollar a month (which is a rather low estimate) then the total costs on salary alone would be 600000 dollar. You can''t just go to bank and say something like:"Yeah, I''m going to start my own videogame company today, could you please loan me half a million dollars so I can pay some people working for me". How does this work? -My final question is; does anyone know of some examples of new companies that started out quite recently (even if they were started by people from within the industry). I know some but there must be more (small ones). I know of a Dutch company called Two Tribes who created a game called Toki Tori for the GBC. There is that company that created a Rally game for the PS2 (They''re located in GB) of which I have forgotten the name but I think I''ll be able to find it out. And I know level-5 started out with Dark Cloud for the PS2. Does anyone know any more? All help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone has any other tips or knows something that might help I would be really greatful. Sorry for the long post by the way I hope it''s still posible to read it.

Hello

I'm an aspiring gamedeveloper working on my first game - I will give you my view on your questions:

quote:
-When creating a new studio there is no reputation build up whatsoever. How does a new developer get attention from Publishers, the console developer (Nintendo/ Sony/ Microsoft), etc? I mean just going to Sony saying "Hi, I'm a student and I want to develop games for the PS2 so give me money" isn't going to work.

Usually the first game is funded by the developers (i. e. student project spin-off, spare time project etc.)
Then one should end up with a 'Tech-demo' and some 'proof-of-concept'. tech-demo is a demo that shows part of the AI, graphics etc. Proof-of-concept could be story-boards, beta-versions etc. It is something that proves (i.e. convinces the publishers) that the over-all concept of the game works Then the group goes to a publisher with their tech-demo and proof-of-concept and says "pleeeeeease fund the finishing of our game - you can (and will) take all the profit - but then perhaps we will get royalties from our NEXT game" (since this is a decent forum, I will not use the word ass-rape)

source: presentations of game companies at 3Dfestival, copenhagen (DICE - battlefield 1942 among others)

quote:
-I know that for development on consoles it's necessary to have a development kit (I've seen development kits for amateurs on sale, but I think those are other ones). How does a new developer get one, especially in the case of new consoles that aren't on the market yet (for example: how would a new company which was set up last week get his hands on a Playstation Portable development kit?). I could imagine that console developers like Sony and Nintendo wouldn't want to give vital hard- and software of their new product to just some kids who think they can become the new Electronic Arts.

They don't

Massive entertainment (ground control) wasn't big enough to get a x-box a dev kit despite their reputation. finally - after a long wait - they got a crappy one that crashed all the time.
But it's important (VITAL) that there's a lot of games available when a new console launches, so producers of upcoming consoles might give (i.e sell) dev kits to promising companies.
Source: (the first part)Massive entertainment presentation

quote:
-This one is about that same subject. Even if a new developer does get a new piece of development ware then how are they going to find people capable of doing anything with it. I'm no programmer but I could imagine it being very hard writing software for a completely new piece of hardware (same example: how would a programmer know what to do with a Playstation Portable Development Kit if he found one laying on his doorstep today)? I'm not sure but I think something like that is very complicated and needs people with many years of experience in the industry.

They could use middleware - that is software that takes care of console-specific features, so the programmer can go on with what he's used to (pc-like programming). 'Renderware' is an example of middleware on PS2. Try "Rendereware" google and see what happens

quote:
-Which brings me to the next question. Where do new developers get the funds for creating their game. Take for example Level-5. They started out with creating Dark Cloud for the PS2 (that was their fisrt game). On that game worked quite a lot of people (I guess somewhere between 25 and 50). If you have 25 people working for you for twelve months at a salary of 2000 dollar a month (which is a rather low estimate) then the total costs on salary alone would be 600000 dollar. You can't just go to bank and say something like:"Yeah, I'm going to start my own videogame company today, could you please loan me half a million dollars so I can pay some people working for me". How does this work?

They don't
As I said - It starts as student project etc.
It could also be a spin-off of another company: the staff behind "Medal of Honour" decided to work for them selves on the new game 'Call of Duty'. In that case they have such a good reputation that they might actually go to a publisher (not bank) and say:
"Yeah, I'm going to start my own videogame company today, could you please loan me half a million dollars so I can pay some people working for me"

My current game is a masterproject + a lot of talented dedicated people working for free
Look at the jobs-forum on this page, and you might get the idea

quote:
-My final question is; does anyone know of some examples of new companies that started out quite recently (even if they were started by people from within the industry). I know some but there must be more (small ones). I know of a Dutch company called Two Tribes who created a game called Toki Tori for the GBC. There is that company that created a Rally game for the PS2 (They're located in GB) of which I have forgotten the name but I think I'll be able to find it out. And I know level-5 started out with Dark Cloud for the PS2. Does anyone know any more?

Danish IO Interactive is new - they made smash-hits like Hitman 1 (their first game) and Hitman 2.

You can find a lot of info about them on their webpage.

http://www.ioi.dk
http://www.ioi.dk/Homepages/


Hope it helps

Ulf

[edited by - UlfLivoff on June 25, 2003 5:43:40 AM]

[edited by - UlfLivoff on June 25, 2003 5:47:22 AM]

-publisher attention
-devkits

It''s difficult even if you have industry experience. If you''re not already a registered developer then it''s a case of catch 22. IIRC for Sony you have to submit a game design document and have a publisher who wants it, if they like it (and believe me they can be fussy) they''ll let you buy the development kits (the kits aren''t even yours, you pay money to ''loan'' them). Once the devkits are in your hands you have to develop it up until alpha. Once at alpha they''ll look at it, if the quality is good enough and everything is going well they''ll give you full developer status and you can finish it.

The catch 22 is that it''s mightily difficult to say to a publisher "I''ve got this cool idea for a game, here''s the design, will you publish it?" A publisher would be hard pushed to sign something with a company that hasn''t got PS2 registered developer status. So to get PS2 registered developer status you need a publisher, to get a publisher you need PS2 registered developer status.

Microsoft have something similar and they offer some middleware solutions and applications for ''free'' during development then when your game is published you pay up for it. It''s a nice way to help.

This isn''t concrete it''s what new companies are supposed to do but I dare say if someone like Molineux set up a new company it wouldn''t be so difficult.

-people to work on devkits.

This isn''t so bad, you would just have to hire people with experience on that console or, if the console is brand new, get people who are good at understanding obscure documentation. That''s down to quality of staff.

-funds.

Tricky one. You could self fund a prototype and get money from a publisher, bank loans, venture capitalists. It''s difficult because the running costs of a full dev company can be high. Basically if you haven''t got the funds yourself you are saying to another company "please give me some money".


Overall, it''s not easy. If you''re ''just'' a bunch of experienced game developers you either need lots of luck or lots of cash. Possibly if you''re the team that worked on a AAA title for a publisher, all left your company and had a bit of cash to self fund you may find it easier due to your reputations.

The other thing is if you know someone who''s at a publisher and who is in a position to influence decisions. Then it''s a "it''s who you know" situation.

What sometimes happens is that you will say to a publisher "What games do you require converting/developing?" and hope they have something. Then you enter a bidding war with other companies but being the cheapest might not get you the project.

Thank you for answering my questions, it really has ben a great help (it''s very enlightning).
Ok, let''s see if I got this straight.

Most new developers (for any platform I presume) start out with a small group of people (friends, fellow students, etc) who work on a demo in their free time.

When the time comes to really start developing on a professionl basis the first and most important (actually Vital) step is to create a very good deign document which shows that the game has promise (I somehow presume that a very high percentage of design documents gets turned down). This design document and the demo are the keys for the possibilty of acquiring the rights on using (not owning) a Development kit and to getting funding from a publisher (who in return wants most if not all of the profit possibly attained with the project).
Then with that funding people can be hired to realise the project.
This means that the design document has to be finished before anyone is actually hired for the project.

Is that all about right?

Alternatively, you could build a reputation and earn money on PC before trying it with consoles, right?

Also note that it''s easier with Microsoft, and harder with Nintendo... Microsoft has some kind of "amateur" program which gives you a cheap SDK (there is a selection though), and you can later move to the real thing (more expensive), since you''d have a working Xbox game already and can show it. For Sony, you don''t really have choice, you need money to buy the dev kit, reputation doesn''t really matter as long as you have cash. Now for Nintendo, you need cash + good reputation (I mean really good). Most developers can''t get dev kits and have to go through their publishers. Just my 2 cents

Oh I forgot the PS2 linux initiative ;p But games are not compatible directly with a "real PS2 OS". There is also homebrew PS2 development, but that''s probably not very legal (need a modchip I think) + you won''t get your game published anyway since the discs are manufactured by Sony in Austria.

You can find out more on the PS2 Linux Kit at: http://playstation2-linux.com/

The FAQ is particularly useful. It costs 249 Euros + Tax + delivery. Sony Computer Entertainment Europe (SCEE) just gave 20 of them to my university for the course I''m doing, so hopefully I''ll have the opportunity to play around with them sometime.

According to the talk we got given by SCEE the Kit comes with substancial amounts of documentation, including hardware information (of course they have secrets they don''t give away). Looking on the site, there seems to be quite alot of support also.

The strict restrictions Nintendo have on developers wanting their development kit will be why there''s a lack of third-party developers, plus I think since it''s quite different from other platforms that not everyone considers working on it for crossplatform titles. Then again these restrictions would stop so many substandard games being released.