Hello, I have read several posts regarding synthesized orchestration emulating a real orchestra and many feel that a realistic sounding ensemble can cost in excess of several thousand dollars. This may be true in certain respects, however, creating and emulating any instrument, real or not real, in actuality depends upon: 1) The quality of the base sound itself 2) The use of the sound in practical sequencing and arranging I have heard several "GIGA" armed orchestral composers that use their expensive sound libraries with little to no regard to the basis of sequencing and arranging orchestral scores. Therefore, their pieces are not realistic, nor convincing. Basically, I think that it comes down to talent level, not the quality of instruments that are used that determines the effectiveness of a synthesized orchestra. You give a talented kid a box of three crayons and he makes something worth looking at. Contrary, you give a non-talented kid one hundred crayons, you probably get a piece of garbage. I have created a piece below that demonstrates that a high priced library is not as crucial as one may think. All the sounds that I used were from either free sites, or I paid a nominal fee to acquire them. http://www.angelfire.com/film/midigame/Orch.mp3 Please let me know of you feel that a super high priced library would make a difference here, or if I am just a "talentless hack" that does not know what he is talking about? =) Thanks for allowing me to share my point of view! GameGenie

“I have heard several "GIGA" armed orchestral composers that use their expensive sound libraries with little to no regard to the basis of sequencing and arranging orchestral scores. Therefore, their pieces are not realistic, nor convincing.

Basically, I think that it comes down to talent level, not the quality of instruments that are used that determines the effectiveness of a synthesized orchestra.”

I agree with this to a point. Gigastudio, along with thousands of dollars worth of orchestral samples, is wasted on many people who aren’t willing to learn about orchestration because they are just playing off the quality of the samples to make it as realistic as they think possible. Though I’m not a big believer in talent, I still believe that with years of hard work and practice one can begin to master various techniques of orchestration that in turn helps to make really good music.

The best thing to do is to take a course in orchestration while mastering an instrument of your choice (preferably the piano). The second best thing to do is get a book on orchestration that examines past composers and the many instruments of an orchestra. That, and listen to a lot of orchestrated music from Bach to Mahler.

“Please let me know of you feel that a super high priced library would make a difference here, or if I am just a "talentless hack" that does not know what he is talking about?”

As a piece for a game or film, it’d be great. But if it were to be played by a live orchestra in concert, it wouldn’t be. It’s dark, thematic and the samples you used come through nicely. If you were composing this for full orchestra, however, you could take the orchestrations even further to get a more full sound. Conversely, a lot of orchestrated music probably wouldn’t even sound good synthesized no matter how hard you try. That’s just the difference between a synth and a live orchestra. What you have there is fine and my advice is to keep going with it and never get discouraged. There’s not much we can do with people who never learn how to orchestrate. Many of them end up quite successful, actually, but if scoring for games or film is your only goal, then you’re on the right track.

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Thanks for the reply Sil,

I know that a real orchestra could not play the piece, or if they did, it would have to be extremely modified. That is the fun of the "Synth Orchestra". You can do whatever you want within the constraints of the hardware.

Basically, I was just commenting on the instruments used, as opposed to the higher priced versions that are sold. Are they really worth it?

Thanks for your comments; they were much appreciated.

i agree with sil about giga (well, and everything else)

but a high priced set of sounds IS nice if you can afford it. it makes some of the process a little bit easier. you give your talentless kid some top of the line tools and he might actually create something worthwhile... if a little avant-garde... but thats a little bit too stretched...

anyways, what you did sounds great for use in something like a game - its very realistic. (my only hack is the chimes... chimes drive me insane. i sit in front of them for a few hours every day... could be worse, though... i could be sitting by the suspended cymbal )

anyways, yes, what you used is not only good, but very good. it sounds pretty damn realistic and well orchestrated (Which, as you pointed out, is the purpose)... and then when you consider the price difference, its really amazing.

however, if you were doing truly professional work for say, a movie soundtrack (and for some reason weren''t allowed to actually record the music ), then something more expensive would be nice.

so im going to stop talking before i repeat myself again.

actually, one more thing. where did you get the sounds? also, what did you use for the orchestration?




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Thanks for the reply George (I think that is you name),

In regards to the sounds that were used, I remember where I got most of them from:

Strings: http://www.thesoundsite.net/
SoundFonts - Strings DXS Super Orchestra (13,787KB)
Cost: $0

French Horn: http://www.thesoundsite.net/
SoundFonts - French Horn Florestan (4,031KB)
Cost: $0
Voices: I forgot
They were originally in WAV format, I had to convert them to SoundFont format in Vienna and clean them up a bit in SoundForge.
Cost: $10

Cymbal Rolls: http://www.soundfonts.com/freesoundfonts.asp
SoundFonts - Cymbal Rolls - (1,349KB)
Cost: $0

Bell: http://www.thesoundsite.net/
SoundFonts - Bells Roland Church (3,217KB)
Cost: $0

Percussion: Samples taken from the Distored Reality collection, the only professional sound library used.
Cost: Got whole collection for $50 on EBay

I think that covers everything.

By the way, I use Cakewalk Sonar 2.0 for sequencing. I used CDXtract to convert the SoundFonts to GigaSampler Format, being that the SBLive can not handle the size of some of the Samples.

thanks!

and, yes, george is my name i dont have a very creative nickname...

i didnt know there were that many good sounds out there for cheap, either. be a nice change from my ''wonderful'' sound card and the sounds that come with my programs. ug. they ALL sound like a bad piano. i have to stop every so often and play it on horn, or get my friends to record parts to see how it actually sounds.

anyways, thanks again. im really grateful




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Most samples cds only the first buyer is allowed and have the license to use the samples. So buying used sample cds from ebay or likewise is not very good. AFAIK that includes Spectrasonics cds like Distorted Reality.
Typical license info:
http://www.soundsonline.com/licenseinfo.shtml

Most people dont know this.

GameGenie: Your music sounds very impressive.
A good tip is to use the mod wheel for some small volume/velocity changes. It really makes it sound more alive.
Also some small tempo changes.

Thanks for the information Korba,

I should have been a little more careful before I bought the product.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions as well

I just wanted to say something to prove the point. I have the FF6 soundtrack, and eventhough the songs sound nothing like a real orchestra, they still sound really good and a lot of them are classic songs that everyone loves, and they still feel better that some of the "quality" music that comes out today!