Okay, I went through nVidia''s code on refraction and I came across something like this, so I figured - nVidia, that figures - and took up the next neat demo on vertex programs that I seem to''ve downloaded, and again:
This is taken from a caustics underwater demo I''ve no idea where I''ve downloaded from. The above excerpt looks slighly like Assembly at the first glance, but no - it''s a bunch of strings. Then again... What is it? Crispy

Looks like a vertex shader.
EDIT: Realized you already knew that

[edited by - Tron3k on December 7, 2002 8:24:33 PM]

It''s a vertex program for use with the NV_vertex_program extension.

Hey Crispy, I was kidding when I told you to implement refractions

yup it is a vertex program. Because it''s for the NV_vertex_program extension, I bet that it will work only on NVIDIA cards. And it will be hardware-accelerated on GeForce3 or greater.

If you want to deal with them, you have to know that there exists ARB_vertex_program too that is implemented on all cards (not only NVIDIA), at least in theory. As you may guess by yourself, ARB_vertex_program and NV_vertex_program are very similar.

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Original post by vincoof
Hey Crispy, I was kidding when I told you to implement refractions

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I wasn''t thinking big, really - just that it would be double nice if the water (surface) also refracted light - didn''t seem at all that difficult after I''d stared at the code for a little while. Basically, the vertex program itself was the only thing I didn''t quite understand - the rest didn''t seem at all that difficult...

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And it will be hardware-accelerated on GeForce3 or greater.

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Are you sure about that? Just ran a refractions demo that uses vertex programs, register compiners and cube mapping on a gf2...

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If you want to deal with them, you have to know that there exists ARB_vertex_program too that is implemented on all cards (not only NVIDIA), at least in theory. As you may guess by yourself, ARB_vertex_program and NV_vertex_program are very similar.

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Yeah I noticed that. Why do they (nVidia) have to have their own implementation of everything when there''s a crossvendor standard present? They''re virually the same, aren''t they?

Crispy

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Just ran a refractions demo that uses vertex programs, register compiners and cube mapping on a gf2...

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Yes you can, but the vertex program is processed in software. Hopefully the drivers are very well optimized, but every NV1x chipset (GeForce2 for instance) do it in software.

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Why do they (nVidia) have to have their own implementation of everything when there's a crossvendor standard present?

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Simply because NVIDIA wrote this extension 3 years ago and didn't want to wait for the ARB extension written in 2002.

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They're virually the same, aren't they?

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Not exactly, though there's alot of similar points. In fact, ARB_vertex_program is a mix between NV_vertex_program and ATI_vertex_shader, and ARB_vertex_program is roughly built ~80% from NV_vertex_program and ~20% from ATI_vertex_shader (évidemment ce ne sont pas des chiffres officiels!).

[edited by - vincoof on December 9, 2002 1:49:07 PM]

Just a thought- would you mind an ARB_vertex_program example that would speed up one of existing NeHe tutorials ?

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Original post by vincoof
Just a thought- would you mind an ARB_vertex_program example that would speed up one of existing NeHe tutorials ?

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I''m not completely sure what you''re saying. Are you saying you''d like to "enhance" one of NeHe''s tutorials with vertex programs? If so, that would be just plain awesome - may I suggest writing a refractions demo j/k - I''d like to crack this one myself (from a purely personal pov) - besides it also involves cubemaps and register combiners if you want to add fresnel and other neat effects to the simpler single-pass solution.

I''ve been wondering for a little while now why people that have 1) a decent gpu, 2) the time, haven''t written extension-specific tutorials for sites such as this... Then again, people who have more knowledge are most likely also more busy. Comes with the turf, I suppose...

Crispy

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Are you saying you''d like to "enhance" one of NeHe''s tutorials with vertex programs?

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yup. currently I''m thinking of the cel-shading tutorial which is a very good example of where vertex programs really help. I think I''ll submit to NeHe if I find some webspace to store the zip file.

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I''ve been wondering for a little while now why people that have 1) a decent gpu, 2) the time, haven''t written extension-specific tutorials for sites such as this...

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If you mean tutorials that go further than the OpenGL core, there are a few reasons, the most important being IMHO :
- you don''t need to get involved into OpenGL advanced features if you still lack some basis,
- people that don''t have a recent/decent graphics card will not be able to run the demo/tutorial,
- it''s pretty rare to find someone willing to explain a complex feature (lack of time, lack of knowledge...),
- some vendor-specific extension should not be detailed for the sake of fairness.
Anyway if you want a short insight of OpenGL extensions mechanism, NeHe still hosts a bumpmapping tutorial (yes it looks crap today but back in the earlier days of 3D it was not bad at all) that uses few basic extensions such as ARB_multitexture.

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Then again, people who have more knowledge are most likely also more busy.

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Even though this site is full of newbies, be sure that there is alot of experienced ppl lurking around the forums, and some of those very talented guys don''t even work for professional 3D programs ! I really wonder how they do

ok I''ve sent the file to NeHe. If everything''s alright, you''ll be able to download it in a few days at http://nehe.gamedev.net along with some documentation that explains the vertex program I''ve used.
I''ve tried to be as clear as possible ; you don''t need any particular knowledge to understand it (except a bit of OpenGL of course ) !
Let''s hope you''ll find it useful.